SiMPLE | Forum

Kevin

Player

Reputation: +68

Registered: 2016-03-07

Posts: 58

cheat or legit?

this guy has been using for the past 2 years  what i consider a form of cheat since it makes one's plane way too overpowered. yet he somehow thinks its cute and okay. since we can't agree on this (i say it's cheating, he thinks its ok), i thought maybe we could hear from the community. basically, this cheat (as i call it), makes the plane not being able to lose engine power almost 100% of the time which then translates to top speed full time, higher climbs, more turning, and almost no stalls since one hardly loses any power. ill show two vids, the first one is flying with a joystick. the second one is flying with a joystick + that cheat. everyone can comment but I would like to hear more from people who are familiar with planes and specially someone in position of authority to let us know if this thing is allowed at all in your servers.

https://streamable.com/fqicd
https://streamable.com/cdvtx

Last edited by Kevin (2019-10-22 01:53:55)

Arkos

Sedmin

Reputation: +2783

Registered: 2014-06-06

Posts: 7,048

Re: cheat or legit?

...

If, then you could see this only while constant looping.

...

valento

Member

Reputation: +124

Location: Vienna, Austria

Registered: 2012-05-18

Posts: 309

Re: cheat or legit?

i see nothing suspicious here. first video you are constantly doing looping so its obvious that you lose speed here? on the second you start to record most of the time right after you left the carrier with more speed, you keep diving slowly and than you keep only turning in one direction so you can keep the speed.

Black Mamba

Member

Reputation: +1497

Registered: 2012-12-01

Posts: 4,362

Re: cheat or legit?

Call the Internet police!

iCQ

Spammer

Reputation: +544

Location: Netherlands

Registered: 2017-07-31

Posts: 1,967

Re: cheat or legit?

this guy named sparrow has been using for the past 2 years or so what i personally consider a form of a cheat since it makes one's plane way too overpowered. yet he somehow thinks its cute and okay. since we can't agree on this (i say it's cheating, he thinks its ok), i thought maybe we could hear from the community. basically, this cheat (as i call it), makes the plane not being able to lose engine power almost 100% of the time which then translates to top speed full time, higher climbs, more turning, and almost no stalls since one hardly loses any power. ill show two vids, the first one is flying with a joystick. the second one is flying with a joystick + that cheat i mentioned. you be the judge. everyone is welcome to comment tho I would mostly like to hear from people who are familiar with planes and specially someone in position of authority to let us know if this thing is allowed at all in your servers.

https://streamable.com/b3tcc

https://streamable.com/cdvtx

Ey Kevin, yeah i heard about it. In my book this is not cheating, yes it maybe, A LITTLE BIT, unbalances the game.

We have people here with bad eye sight too... should we deal with them since they will never be up-to-par with "us"?

It is a difficult matter, nice discussion point... i love joystick players tho! See TheVicar on my site, he is one of the aX regulars who use his joystick for flights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BhqwQLGZ3A

In most PC games joystick players are actually considered welcome and "semi-leet".

s/w

Player

Reputation: +805

Registered: 2017-01-02

Posts: 532

Re: cheat or legit?

I really don't have much to say since we've been discussing this for over a year...

So for people that HAVEN'T read my post yesterday, PLEASE read it now. In that post i explain why joystick config (which he consideres a cheat)

ISN'T cheating.

http://team-simple.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=7477

hanzee

Player

Reputation: +26

Registered: 2014-07-08

Posts: 33

Re: cheat or legit?

Haha, thought you were trolling Kevkev. Your videos proof nothing im afraid. Looking forward to see your next evidence..

Unit 17

Player

Reputation: +50

Registered: 2019-08-19

Posts: 38

Re: cheat or legit?

From what I can gather from the discussion is that the aircraft is on full power the whole time turns, banks, dives & climbs? If so, a vertical climb from ground level/take off to the aircrafts ceiling limit should not be hindered by power loss/height etc, if I saw this on the vid I might question it. (Saying that, I have experienced a few opponents whos P-51's have had a much greater climb rate than my 109.)

Kevin

Player

Reputation: +68

Registered: 2016-03-07

Posts: 58

Re: cheat or legit?

i see nothing suspicious here. first video you are constantly doing looping so its obvious that you lose speed here? on the second you start to record most of the time right after you left the carrier with more speed, you keep diving slowly and than you keep only turning in one direction so you can keep the speed.

its true, but there are also instances on both videos where the planes are doing the same loops, what do u make of that?

Kevin

Player

Reputation: +68

Registered: 2016-03-07

Posts: 58

Re: cheat or legit?

From what I can gather from the discussion is that the aircraft is on full power the whole time turns, banks, dives & climbs? If so, a vertical climb from ground level/take off to the aircrafts ceiling limit should not be hindered by power loss/height etc, if I saw this on the vid I might question it. (Saying that, I have experienced a few opponents whos P-51's have had a much greater climb rate than my 109.)

first you would need to be full speed. then that thing i mentioned will make sure it stays so almost all the time even though u may climb, dive, turn and so on unlike a regular plane which loses its power way more quicker when performing those moves

Kevin

Player

Reputation: +68

Registered: 2016-03-07

Posts: 58

Re: cheat or legit?

by the way im replacing the first vid with the following
https://streamable.com/fqicd
just so both videos look more alike and avoid bias. if a mod could pls replace the first link from my original post (i cant edit it) with the one i just mentioned that'd be helpful.

s/w

Player

Reputation: +805

Registered: 2017-01-02

Posts: 532

Re: cheat or legit?

(I've already told this to kevin in discord, but now ill say this to the public so everyone can see)

In short, it's the joystick rudder that helps preserve ''power'' the most. Not the config itself.

Longer explanation:

There's no doubt that js config helps  to preserve power in a way. However, it doesn't add anything ''extra'' (more than the limit) like Kevin thinks.

And even though it helps preserve power a bit, this effect is not much noticable in public flying. The only place where this can easily be noticed is in 1v1 fights. And I am not talking about public 1v1's, since they are totaly different from the actual private 1v1's.

But still, the config is not what truly helps preserve power, it's the joystick rudder.

Let's take this video as an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZjT2PD80Fk

I've posted this video on the forum a while ago. Also, I am using joystick configuration in this video.

However, anyone can notice how much my plane struggles right? contrary to what Kevin implies. The reason for that is because in this video, even though I am using the config, I am not using the joystick rudder. Only keyboard rudder.  A & D keys.

While I don't have any fights recorded while using the joystick rudder,  I however have 2 ''test'' videos regarding that. Btw, in the following 2 vids, i'm using joystick config.  In the first vid, i'm showing how much the plane struggles to meintain speed past the 20 sec mark while rotating. Also, in this vid, i'm using little to no rudder. And it's keyboard rudder not joystick. (like in every one of my fights, before I started using the joystick rudder.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRWP_kLFIm0

Now it's the second vid. In this video, i'm using the JOYSTICK rudder 100% of the time. And you guys can clearly notice how much easily can the spit rotate and STILL preserve most of the speed. Ofcourse, these 2 vids are only meant as an example. In actual 1v1's, the effect is much more noticable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbOSVKZohDs

Just a few days ago, I was flying together with uly against Kevin and a few others in bocage. (I was using the 109, and default, no config.)

Yet Kevin was still convinced that I was using the config that day. And the only reason for that is the JOYSTICK rudder. If I were using keyboard rudder that day, I wouldn't even last a minute in those fights with multiple enemies.

I'm really not sure why but, Kevin ignores these facts. Even though I  gave him a detailed explanation on how to properly use the joystick rudder, he still either refuses, or just can't replicate what I was saying.

EDIT: almost forgot this.

Drago btw,  as many of you might have noticed before, had soo much speed in every plane. I think he used the same rudder technique as me but much more professionaly ofc.  nameless still thinks drago's plane was modded in some way because of this

Last edited by s/w (2019-10-09 11:39:04)

Arkos

Sedmin

Reputation: +2783

Registered: 2014-06-06

Posts: 7,048

Re: cheat or legit?

...

It's no secret that Keyboard only or Stick preserve the power, but using mouse and keyboard you loose speed while looping as example.

...

s/w

Player

Reputation: +805

Registered: 2017-01-02

Posts: 532

Re: cheat or legit?

@Arkos

Yeah, ofcourse.  mouse and keyboard is the worst combination possible especially for dogfightning.  (considering you dont use alternative key on the keyboard for turning like some people do to enhance turning.) Mouse is only good for aiming and maybe a bit public flying, but never in a duels. (except mustang, and weaker opponents.)  in 1v1 i can drain almost all of the speed on just the first move of most mouse flyers.

And another fun fact is that Zero and 109 with keyboard only,  is actually even more overpowered than joystick rudder + config. Tested this on Kevin and sharp, the power difference was almost unbelieveable.

Last edited by s/w (2019-10-09 12:45:46)

Arkos

Sedmin

Reputation: +2783

Registered: 2014-06-06

Posts: 7,048

Re: cheat or legit?

...

I have also alternative keys, but the bad thing is, i should have 6 finders in some situations.

The problem is, you need 3 fingers for w, a, s, d. Pushing alternative keys for up and down, means you can't use "d" between.

Perhaps i try it once with "alt".  At least for "up"

Sadly the additional MouseButtons are, not like in the past, only configurable due scripts with MouseSoftware. And i'm too lazy to make that.

An other problem is, if you used since years a config, you can't switch that fast. I'm somehow a bit deadlocked in those things

...

s/w

Player

Reputation: +805

Registered: 2017-01-02

Posts: 532

Re: cheat or legit?

When I used to fly with mouse & keyboard, this is which keys and fingers I used. Left hand: I used W and S  keys for acceleration/decelleration.  Both W and S with the middle finger.

A and D for rudder. A with the ring finger, and D with the index finger.

Shift for ''bomb''. Shift with the pinkie. (alternative key for bombing)

Space bar for shooting. Space bar with the thumb. (alternative key for shooting)

For views, C V F G.  I used and still use the space bar and C V F G with only 1 finger, the thumb.

Right hand:

Mainly I used the ''click'' on the scroll wheel on the mouse as an alternative key for ''up'' with the index finger.   

And for ''down'' I used 1 side button on the left side of the mouse with the thumb.  And actually, you don't really need an alternative key for ''down''.  ''up'' is much more useful.

valento

Member

Reputation: +124

Location: Vienna, Austria

Registered: 2012-05-18

Posts: 309

Re: cheat or legit?

its all about how you fly.. drago was just a damn good pilot who knows how to handle the plane to keep up the speed and most of the time he always knew the opponents next move somehow and that was fatal. he was skilled.. thats all.. and i can tell that because i had alot of DF with him and with other top pilots like snaketits, 101, butch and so on in the past and they were all unique. we were good cuz we exatly knew that every specific plane have their own advantage and disadvantage so we could use that.

it doesent matter how you configure ur rudder settings or if you have any other software running like logitech profiler wich is imo totaly useless and so on if you dont know how to handle the plane.
ive tried mouse and keyboard, keyboard only, joystick only and joystick + keyboard and in the end i decided to fly with joystick+keyboard cuz that was more comfortable for me and it had nothing to do with advantage or disadvantage cuz i've tried it out.
its all about skills and nothing else

Last edited by valento (2019-10-09 17:28:47)

s/w

Player

Reputation: +805

Registered: 2017-01-02

Posts: 532

Re: cheat or legit?

I know that...  i never said he was not skilled or something like that. have been dfing so many times with him last year.  Was only giving an example...  because he was  exceptionally skillful with the rudder usage like no other pilot i've seen.

''it doesent matter how you configure ur rudder settings or if you have any other software running like logitech profiler wich is imo totaly useless and so on if you dont know how to handle the plane.''

Yes,   90% of the time i am not running any config, just default anyways. Was just showing the difference between joystick rudder and keyboard rudder since both of them have disadvantages and advantages. it's also what i'm trying to tell kevin all the time which he refuses to understand.

'' ive tried mouse and keyboard, keyboard only, joystick only and joystick + keyboard and in the end i decided to fly with joystick+keyboard cuz that was more comfortable for me and it had nothing to do with advantage or disadvantage cuz i've tried it out. ''

Same. i'm also mainly flying with js+kb  for the same reason.  But sometimes, i like to switch to kb only when i get bored with js.

'' its all about skills and nothing else ''

Absolutely.

Last edited by s/w (2019-10-09 19:14:22)

000

Player

Reputation: +681

Registered: 2015-07-29

Posts: 1,868

Re: cheat or legit?

so ... who was the best ever 1 v 1 dogfight pilot in bf1942 ?

drago ? raptor ?

s/w

Player

Reputation: +805

Registered: 2017-01-02

Posts: 532

Re: cheat or legit?

@BFSoldier

I'm only playing since beginning of 2013 so i have no clue about the best ever but from my experience drago was the best pilot i've faced ever in 1v1. The skill he possessed was just ridiculous. He knew exactly which move to make, which angle, and how to aim.

I've also did a few 1v1's with raptor but i think he was just very rusty, and didn't perform well against my spit

Last edited by s/w (2019-10-09 19:23:41)

ABAS

disciple of Jeff

Reputation: +1981

Registered: 2015-12-10

Posts: 2,346

Website

Re: cheat or legit?

remember drago had a ping around 3 to 20 , raptor had over 110

Zatoichi

Player

Reputation: -34

Registered: 2012-05-29

Posts: 1,844

Re: cheat or legit?

Its me

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