Anyone know about UPS battery backups?

Sunshine · 2018-08-17 15:32:51

I'm talking about "Uninterruptible Power Supply."

Most people in this area have "whole home surge protection" installed due to epic lightning here, but close strikes can have probs and there's brownouts/temp losses even when it's miles away. Obviously a direct hit will deliver doom to all, but insurance would deal with that. My issue is the temporary loss of power or a surge that resets, which can last seconds or a few mins during storms even when they're far away. I have my electronics plugged into surge protectors but I would like a battery backup to be able to have the time to power down and stuff. I recently bought a new TV and don't want it to be screwed.

I've read about them and see that some of the popular and recommended brands are APC and CyberPower. I've read reviews but I just want to know if anyone here has one or can recommend one. I would plug in my desktop, modem/router, monitor, and a TV.

Also, some UPS have software you install on your PC, I'd rather not have that.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated

MadMax · 2018-08-17 15:43:40

check about power stabilizer for home purposes

Sunshine · 2018-08-17 15:49:37

MadMax wrote:

check about power stabilizer for home purposes

If that's the same as "voltage stabilizer" then my place already has it.

Last edited by Sunshine (2018-08-17 15:51:30)

Vojislav · 2018-08-17 15:53:06

I have apc baterry ups 1500. Found it very cheap about 20 euro for ups and 50 for new batteries. It can last about one hour when electricity fail. Its good to save you computer and hard drive .

Sunshine · 2018-08-17 16:08:12

Vojislav wrote:

I have apc baterry ups 1500. Found it very cheap about 20 euro for ups and 50 for new batteries. It can last about one hour when electricity fail. Its good to save you computer and hard drive .

I looked it up but only one I see is about $200 :-/

Vojislav · 2018-08-17 20:44:36

huh, thats way too much. Did you looking for new or used one ?

Sunshine · 2018-08-17 21:16:07

This is what I found when I looked it up: http://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/ … /P-BR1500G

Is that the same one you have?

(BB)DinkW · 2018-08-17 21:27:05

Not a good idea to buy a used one as the batteries have a limited life and no obvious way of telling if they are good or not just buy looking. If they have been worked hard keeping a voltage stable for a time they can and will fail suddenly. We had a large one fail where I work which caused the evacuation of a building due to the gas they give off when they fail catastrophically due to voltage stabilisation.
All that said Vojislav is correct APC is the one to look for they have been making UPS unit for many years and you should be able to pick up a new one for less than $100, you need to find out many watts of power you need to back up.

The below is based upon 185watts

http://www.apc.com/us/en/tools/ups_selector/results.cfm

HTH

Last edited by (BB)DinkW (2018-08-17 21:28:33)

Sunshine · 2018-08-17 21:39:57

I don't know how much wattage I'm using though :-/

My PC has 1000w PSU but there's no way I'm even close to that. LCD monitors avg around 80 I guess.The TV uses up to 163 watts. The Nintendo Switch is 39 watts I think. I don't know how much my modem/router uses.

I don't have a handheld wattage meter or anything to see how much my PC actually uses

Vojislav · 2018-08-17 22:01:23

Hmm no i dont have that model, its some new version. I have this one : https://forums.apc.com/spaces/7/ups-man … hrough-usb . If you plan to use it for computer, monitor, and tv , its more than enough i think. I have connected pc, monitor, night lamp , mini line, phone charger and tv . With all this on can last half hour You could calculate power in watts if you know how many current ( amperes ) it takes . Current x voltage = wats

Sunshine · 2018-08-17 22:12:37

I know the math I just don't know how much I'm using in my PC with all the diff components. I'm thinking it's probably around 350w or so. After looking up some specs, I've concluded that I'm running about 365 watts on my PC

I can't go to Best Buy and ask because they treat me like a retard and tried to sell me a $500 one yesterday.

Last edited by Sunshine (2018-08-17 22:23:45)

(BB)DinkW · 2018-08-17 22:27:04

You can use a clamp meter if you can borrow one from somewhere, a good electrician will usually have one, to find the current being drawn and then do the maths to work the wattage.

seVen · 2018-08-17 23:29:59

After using a various APC's through the years, I bought a CyberPower CP1000PFCLCD three years ago.
Still working fine like day one.

2 low-power computers
1 monitor
1 router
1 FIOS box
1 switch
1 phone
1 VOIP box

it's output (right now) is 66w (11%) and 90va(9%) Those numbers fluctuate, but it gives a general idea.
The "pfc" in the model denotes "Sine Wave" support for the modern PSU in computers these days.
Prices are crazy now. I bought a spare in 2016 for 'bout $80. (still in a box here)

Sunshine wrote:

Also, some UPS have software you install on your PC, I'd rather not have that.

Software will allow you to check the vitals of the unit, and set it to shutdown yur gear
at xx minutes during a continuous outage. Not required but some recommend it.

EDIT: Cyberpower with PFC on AZ
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00429N19W/re … 4N6au&th=1

Last edited by seVen (2018-08-17 23:39:02)

Sunshine · 2018-08-18 00:06:27

Vertigo, does that one also act as a surge protector? I saw one that was just UPS but NOT a surge protector.

Dink, I don't have access to such things unless I'm at school and I wouldn't be allowed to bring it home.

Trench · 2018-08-18 02:47:12

(BB)DinkW wrote:

Not a good idea to buy a used one as the batteries have a limited life and no obvious way of telling if they are good or not just buy looking.

That's a fair point, but based on experience you'll have a hard time buying a used one WITH batteries, unless the seller simply doesn't know what they're doing. Used or refurbished is usually sold without batteries primarily due to the shipping cost (high weight cost for unknown condition battery), when you can just ship the unit empty and either pay shipping for known-new batteries or source them locally without direct shipping costs.

I'm using APC Back-UPS Pro 1500 units (BR1500G), and the most recent two I bought were US$62 each, delivered, pre-owned from eBay. New genuine APC RBC124 batteries from Amazon.com were then $60 each, Prime 2-day. You can cut the battery price in about half if you're willing to use third-party compatible replacements. Have six total of those, for the various computers running here, and was very happy to keep buying them. So definitely no complaints with that model.

-Trench

Trench · 2018-08-18 03:03:49

Sunshine wrote:

Dink, I don't have access to such things unless I'm at school and I wouldn't be allowed to bring it home.

If you find the BR1500G for a price you'll accept, I would simply do that. It's going to be double or triple whatever your current load is, probably, but that just means you get more runtime when the power does leave. You're not trying to "match" your current load; you're making sure the unit does handle at least as much as your current systems draw, and then also buying over-capacity for however much additional runtime you want to achieve.

So once you have it, the UPS is going to tell you what you're drawing & what the projected runtime will be with the load you have. (i.e. It will "be the meter to measure your load" at that point.) Best case scenario, you've just bought three times the capacity you need, and have invested in longer runtime by having more capacity than you need. Worst case, you'll see that to achieve the runtime you really want, you'll need to split the load over two units and will be in the market to purchase a second one.

I just definitely think that regardless of what you might pre-measure the load to be, you'll be better off with multiple 1500 units than trying to go into the market for a 3000 or higher single unit. Just more flexibility for the future by being able to divide them, and doesn't really change the investment by much when it comes time to replace batteries. That's my US$0.02 anyway.

-Trench

Sunshine · 2018-08-18 14:47:26

Trench, thanks for the info. I will look at some this weekend.

Another question..

I read about "low power, long lasting" UPS for low wattage things like modems/routers. They can keep them up for 2 or 3 hours but regular UPS won't do that because they're not made for low wattage stuff I guess. I'm definitely wanting one because hurricane Irma took my power out for a week and during the storm I lost power in the middle of the night and I couldn't get any info about the storm because cell service was also down. The extra couple hours to check info would've been extremely nice. A person said the internet service was up when they plugged their modem into their generator.

Trench · 2018-08-19 00:09:33

Sunshine wrote:

A person said the internet service was up when they plugged their modem into their generator.

Yeah, I wouldn't have presumed the service would still be available, regardless of whether you had battery backup or generator backup or not. Very nice that it was still available in that instance; but not sure I would "count" on that or justify any over-expenditure on thinking you're guaranteeing you'll have access for as long as the battery lasts. The ISP's service is only going to last as long as their weakest link or battery backup; during our last long-term power outage here, cell towers were still up, and I was still up because of all the UPS units on everything including the ONT on the outside of the house; but the Internet service was still down.

So I would think more in terms of just protection of your systems, so that they're getting good power in surge or brownout or complete outage, and will never feel the effect of short or medium duration events. If you happen to be able to keep external services alive too during such events, that's an added bonus, but your mileage may vary for factors that outside of your control.

The "low draw" UPS doesn't bring anything to mind for me; I would put a low load on any UPS in order to expect longer runtimes. For example, on one of the 1500s where the only thing turned on right now is my printer, it shows an 8w load and estimates it will be able to sustain that for 186 minutes on battery. As opposed to one where I have a couple Xeon systems running, which has shows a 160w load and estimated 35 minute runtime.

Maybe someone else has heard of something designed to "run small things for long times" that's even more specialized than this, but that doesn't ring any bells for me.

-Trench

Sunshine · 2018-08-19 01:01:33

I'm still reading different reviews about the APC and Cyberpower ones. I'm going to try and see them tomorrow.

The internet went out eventually, but those extra few hours would've put me at ease a little bit lol. I have one of those ONT things in the garage but I don't know if it was on or not.

I read about the Low wattage, long runtime on a couple forums. Thse 2 were mentioned:

http://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/ … up/P-BGE70
and
http://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/ … s/P-BGE90M

bud · 2018-08-19 01:33:21

Sunshine wrote:

I read about "low power, long lasting" UPS for low wattage things like modems/routers. They can keep them up for 2 or 3 hours

Check the power output on the routers adapter first, a usb powerbank can supply 5 volt for many hours.
-

Trench · 2018-08-19 02:42:10

Sunshine wrote:

I have one of those ONT things in the garage but I don't know if it was on or not.

Originally for FiOS, Verizon would only install a battery backup on your ONT if you had purchased FiOS-based phone service with them. Presumably because of their concern for local regulation regarding 9-1-1 service, and being able to make an emergency call even when the power was out. (As compared to legacy copper service, which was powered over the phone lines themselves.)

FiOS no longer provides a battery backup. The technicians tell you "it's not needed any more", but I think all it really means is Verizon's lawyers finally figured out they were not compelled to provide one. While true that "it doesn't need one", without one your phone service IS going to go out when the ONT loses power.

I still have the Verizon UPS on my residential service, and just replace the batteries on it myself when needed. They installed a business line of service here too without a UPS, and so I had to put my own UPS on that second ONT. If you have a UPS on your ONT, it will be inside the garage near where ever the ONT is plugged into AC power. If you don't have one there, maybe that's another place to consider adding one.

-Trench

Sunshine · 2018-08-19 16:49:35

bud wrote:

Sunshine wrote:
I read about "low power, long lasting" UPS for low wattage things like modems/routers. They can keep them up for 2 or 3 hours
Check the power output on the routers adapter first, a usb powerbank can supply 5 volt for many hours.
-
http://bfo.pm/pic/1.jpg

12v, 2.8a

Sunshine · 2018-08-19 16:53:53

Trench wrote:

Sunshine wrote:
I have one of those ONT things in the garage but I don't know if it was on or not.
Originally for FiOS, Verizon would only install a battery backup on your ONT if you had purchased FiOS-based phone service with them. Presumably because of their concern for local regulation regarding 9-1-1 service, and being able to make an emergency call even when the power was out. (As compared to legacy copper service, which was powered over the phone lines themselves.)
FiOS no longer provides a battery backup. The technicians tell you "it's not needed any more", but I think all it really means is Verizon's lawyers finally figured out they were not compelled to provide one. While true that "it doesn't need one", without one your phone service IS going to go out when the ONT loses power.
I still have the Verizon UPS on my residential service, and just replace the batteries on it myself when needed. They installed a business line of service here too without a UPS, and so I had to put my own UPS on that second ONT. If you have a UPS on your ONT, it will be inside the garage near where ever the ONT is plugged into AC power. If you don't have one there, maybe that's another place to consider adding one.
-Trench

Yes, the ONT box does have a UPS.

bud · 2018-08-20 01:26:34

Trench wrote:

Maybe someone else has heard of something designed to "run small things for long times" that's even more specialized than this, but that doesn't ring any bells for me.
-Trench

Simply put its the amount of electronics built in the device, it takes more power the more you add. For instance your ups has some logic circuit that needs power to run (even if small)

Principal of PSU, converting dc to ac, principal of PSU, converting ac to dc

A PSU to a computer has a sweetspot where its the most effective (usually somewhere at 50% peak power) now the UPS does the same thing but in reverse - converting dc to ac and it has the same thing where it will operate most effeciently. If you get 80% energy out between each conversion its considered ok.

Badly explained but hopefully somewhat understandable.
-

bud · 2018-08-20 02:12:31

Sunshine wrote:

I know the math I just don't know how much I'm using in my PC with all the diff components. I'm thinking it's probably around 350w or so. After looking up some specs, I've concluded that I'm running about 365 watts on my PC
I can't go to Best Buy and ask because they treat me like a retard and tried to sell me a $500 one yesterday.

You need something like this

bestbuy https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/me … 63984.aspx

walmart https://www.walmart.com/ip/P3-Internato … r/14282370

Sunshine · 2018-08-20 02:32:06

bud wrote:

Sunshine wrote:
I know the math I just don't know how much I'm using in my PC with all the diff components. I'm thinking it's probably around 350w or so. After looking up some specs, I've concluded that I'm running about 365 watts on my PC
I can't go to Best Buy and ask because they treat me like a retard and tried to sell me a $500 one yesterday.
You need something like this
bestbuy https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/me … 63984.aspx
walmart https://www.walmart.com/ip/P3-Internato … r/14282370

Yea, I've used one before in school. But I'm comfortable with my estimate of about 365 for my PC based on looking up the hardware specs.

iCQ · 2018-08-20 05:47:41

Sorry that i not fully read this thread. But whenever i need an UPS like system i make sure it runs on 16850 cells....

Why? Because it stores tons of power and is quite cheap... there are literally 1000's of UPS alike products and projects out there. Mainly u need to figure out how much WATT you like to support and for how long. And the money you are willing to pay for it (budget).

After reading a bit more i understand you want to run loads of stuff when the power goes down. Well then get yourself a cheap second hand generator and store some gasoline or diesel. Thats by far the most cheap and and lasting thing to do Sunshine.

Buying anything with accu's or batteries second hand is a big NO NO... unless u replace the battery.. but then the price just like buying the whole thing new.

A generator is what you need.... (or invest in solar panels, but i guess you not have the budget for that either).

https://www.google.com/search?q=generat … 32&bih=649

U can ask farmers in your neigbourhood they sure have some old ones laying around u can buy for cheap from them (and u be able to figure out if its crap/broken or not before you buy).

Buying generators second hand online is ok... but u really have to double check with someone who knows about these things if the one you found is ok.

Last edited by iCQ (2018-08-20 05:56:11)

Sunshine · 2018-08-20 13:20:42

I have a generator for important things. I don't hook my entertainment stuff to it ffs.

I went to see some more about a UPS. There's a local computer shop that sells them and I asked a few questions. They said a small low wattage UPS is better for low wattage things because they're specifically made for low wattage things, such as my modem/router.

He answered some more questions about the regular UPS I'd use for my tv and PC. Now I just gotta choose between APC and Cyberpower.

Thanks for all of your help and suggestions peoples!

seVen · 2018-08-20 14:39:38

Sunshine wrote:

Vertigo, does that one also act as a surge protector? I saw one that was just UPS but NOT a surge protector.

Yes, along with line conditioning. It's all on their site.

Sunshine wrote:

They said a small low wattage UPS is better for low wattage things because they're specifically made for low wattage things, such as my modem/router.

The BGE70/90 are a good choice for network devices. The 70 has been on sale for under $20 in the past.

Sunshine · 2018-08-20 15:06:41

Vertigo wrote:

Sunshine wrote:
They said a small low wattage UPS is better for low wattage things because they're specifically made for low wattage things, such as my modem/router.
The BGE70/90 are a good choice for network devices. The 70 has been on sale for under $20 in the past.

The place I went to had the BGE90 on sale for $19.99. The guy there said he always recommends them for modems, routers, and DVRs. I'm probably going to pick one up

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