World War III

Rinjo · 2022-02-25 11:27:33

nameless says "What's going on right now is not the worst thing actually. Our government maybe corrupt but they aren't idiots. There are some hot shots there who'd prefer to bomb the entire Ukraine to remove the threat. If it was US in Russia's place, I think they'd resolve the problem this way." - what problem are you writing about?
They brainwash you in Russia, telling you that in Ukraine there was a problem between certain regions ... This is nonsense and a figment of Russian propaganda.
Nameless says:"It's a matter of two ex-regions Donetsk and Lugansk and the borderlines. After recongition of these regions, their government can invite the Russian army to guarantee the safety." - safety?
I'm from Poland. I have friends from Russia and Ukraine. Nothing happened in those regions. What is the security of the Russian military for these regions? It's a normal attack for no reason. Man...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1497134141627850789

The Russians are now close to Kiev. Nice "peace action"

Last edited by Rinjo (2022-02-25 11:34:23)

Ferd Grapperhaus · 2022-02-25 11:46:28

Rinjo wrote:

nameless says "What's going on right now is not the worst thing actually. Our government maybe corrupt but they aren't idiots. There are some hot shots there who'd prefer to bomb the entire Ukraine to remove the threat. If it was US in Russia's place, I think they'd resolve the problem this way." - what problem are you writing about?
They brainwash you in Russia, telling you that in Ukraine there was a problem between certain regions ... This is nonsense and a figment of Russian propaganda.
Nameless says:"It's a matter of two ex-regions Donetsk and Lugansk and the borderlines. After recongition of these regions, their government can invite the Russian army to guarantee the safety." - safety?
I'm from Poland. I have friends from Russia and Ukraine. Nothing happened in those regions. What is the security of the Russian military for these regions? It's a normal attack for no reason. Man...
https://twitter.com/i/status/1497134141627850789
The Russians are now close to Kiev. Nice "peace action"

Putin is a fucking piece of shit, full retard. I hope Russia will suffer hard, in every way. I do feel sorry for the huge amount of Russians who are fully against this war. But they are not free to say this, they will just end up in prison.

Rinjo · 2022-02-25 12:54:31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHfxen6Jplg

Yesterday, on the island of snakes (an island in the black sea belonging to Ukraine), there was an exchange of views between the defenders (Ukrainians - 13 people) and a Russian warship.

All defenders died on the spot ...

"Russian warship, F * ck Yourself"

Last edited by Rinjo (2022-02-25 12:56:47)

nämeless · 2022-02-25 13:02:02

Judging by the comments, this is the perfect example of how propaganda works. Every country uses its propaganda in the interests of the country. For example, now everyone in the "civilised Western world" thinks that Russia is attacking Ukraine because Ukraine is good and Russia is bad. This explanation is only appropriate for the children in the kindergarten but it works worldwide for many people. Something will be overreached, something omitted, something is just a blatant lie.

Ukrainians aren't saint people. I think you know nothing of the war crimes in the Eastern ex-regions of Ukraine. You don't know how many thousands of civilians in Ukraine died there and how did they die. Women, children, elderly people. You probably don't know how Ukrainians killed the other Ukrainians just burning them alive. You don't know how snipers shooting rural people when they're feeding chickens, shooting just for fun. You don't know how the Ukrainians shelling the houses of the other Ukrainians to force them live in the basements or not to live at all.

The things like these should not happen in the 21st century. The Ukrainians should not treat the other Ukrainians like subhumans. Especially, when no one sees the difference between them.

Ukraine in NATO and Ukraine with nuclear weapon is like a monkey with a grenade. There is hope everything will be over in one week.

Rinjo · 2022-02-25 13:05:36

Where do you get such information about what the Ukrainians do another Ukrainians ? Can you give this information a source? Please.

it's a fake, but it needs to be clarified

"Ukraine in NATO and Ukraine with nuclear weapon is like a monkey with a grenade. There is hope everything will be over in one week." -
this sentence proves your attitude towards Ukrainian citizens.

Last edited by Rinjo (2022-02-25 13:07:13)

nämeless · 2022-02-25 13:15:56

Rinjo wrote:

Where do you get such information about what the Ukrainians do another Ukrainians ? Can you give this information a source? Please.
it's a fake, but it needs to be clarified
"Ukraine in NATO and Ukraine with nuclear weapon is like a monkey with a grenade. There is hope everything will be over in one week." -
this sentence proves your attitude towards Ukrainian citizens.

Hope BBC as a source is good for you, although what's written there has everything I said about propaganda before. Nazis are called "ultras", some Ukrainians are called pro-Russian, some pro-Ukrainian. It's not a fucking football match.

The long story in short. People had idea to make Ukraine a federative country (like Russia, USA, Germany etc). They were burned alive in the building. 40 people died, many injured.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27275383
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl … 19124.html

Here is Google search.

https://www.google.com/search?q=burned+alive+in+odessa

What I said is probably less than 1% of war crimes in Ukraine.

Zody · 2022-02-25 13:34:05

More sources nämeless. we all wanne see those sources about the "thousands of civilians in Ukraine" who "died there and how did they die". you were spoonfed putin lies in the last years. Russia is the aggressor here and the only one to blame for it.

Rinjo · 2022-02-25 13:41:05

First, this information relates to 2014. -
Secondly, the march was attacked by "pro-Russian groups". PRO-RUSSIAN.
"Only days before the Odessa violence, in the eastern city of Donetsk, armed pro-Russian militants had attacked a peaceful pro-Maidan march." - so those who sympathize with Russia, not Ukrainians - Ukrainians.
I understand your point of view, but unfortunately from the factual point of view it is wrong (concerning the attack on Russia in 2022)

Putin does not want Ukraine to be in NATO and is doing everything to annihilate it. I know one thing ... ordinary people will feel it the most (in the economic context) like us.
Two Ukrainian regions - Lugansk and Donetsk ... even if they would like to join Russia, there are ways other than war.
All Russian society will regret this war - you'll see

nämeless · 2022-02-25 13:42:37

Zody wrote:

More sources nämeless. we all wanne see those sources about the "thousands of civilians in Ukraine" who "died there and how did they die". you were spoonfed putin lies in the last years. Russia is the aggressor here and the only one to blame for it.

I specially do not bring Russian sources. Here is American media (Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, RFE/RL). Ukrainian department.

Only numbers. But I think the real numbers are higher.

https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/news-un- … 59458.html

Rinjo · 2022-02-25 13:45:27

lest there be ...
More than once I drank vodka with the Russians. I consider them one of the smartest people .. but that does not change the fact that you have a shitty government and you are afraid of it

nämeless · 2022-02-25 13:51:16

Rinjo wrote:

First, this information relates to 2014. -
Secondly, the march was attacked by "pro-Russian groups". PRO-RUSSIAN.
"Only days before the Odessa violence, in the eastern city of Donetsk, armed pro-Russian militants had attacked a peaceful pro-Maidan march." - so those who sympathize with Russia, not Ukrainians - Ukrainians.
I understand your point of view, but unfortunately from the factual point of view it is wrong (concerning the attack on Russia in 2022)

All people killed in fire were citizens of Ukraine, they were Ukrainians. Every Ukrainian, who doesn't support Ukrainian official policy, is called "pro-Russian", Russian or sometimes even worse. People, killed in Odessa, were called "fried Colorado beetles". No one sane will permit to treat himself as an insect. The civil war started in Ukraine in 2014 in the East. Americans supported Ukraine with money and weapons, Russia supported separatists with money and weapons too. The Ukrainian government said to its citizens they are fighting Russians in the East. Now, since 24th of February, it's really Russians.

Zody · 2022-02-25 13:52:08

nämeless wrote:

Zody wrote:
More sources nämeless. we all wanne see those sources about the "thousands of civilians in Ukraine" who "died there and how did they die". you were spoonfed putin lies in the last years. Russia is the aggressor here and the only one to blame for it.
I specially do not bring Russian sources. Here is American media (Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, RFE/RL). Ukrainian department.
Only numbers. But I think the real numbers are higher.
https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/news-un- … 59458.html

A conflict your government started and funded. what are you on about? this is your governments doing not ukraines. putin created this conflict for his sick ambition

Last edited by Zody (2022-02-25 13:52:57)

nämeless · 2022-02-25 13:57:02

Zody wrote:

A conflict your government started and funded. what are you on about? this is your governments doing not ukraines. putin created this conflict for his sick ambition

Rinjo wrote:

lest there be ...
More than once I drank vodka with the Russians. I consider them one of the smartest people .. but that does not change the fact that you have a shitty government and you are afraid of it

I don't want to continue and this is the reason.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Graham_(programmer)#Graham's_hierarchy_of_disagreement

Zody · 2022-02-25 14:00:33

Attacks on your government are personal for you? says more than I could ever. Btw you are the one sharing falsehoods. Maybe you should fully understand the concepts first before you share them

Rinjo · 2022-02-25 14:06:14

There is an even larger nameless list - a list of cognitive biases I know something about it, because I deal with soft skills training on a daily basis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

I attacked your government because I believe it is true and all the facts prove it. The attack on Ukraine is an act of barbarism. I also believe that there is propaganda on Russian tv.

Zody says: "Maybe you should fully understand the concepts first before you share them" -
such things only exist on Russian TV

Zwarrior · 2022-02-25 15:21:57

nämeless wrote:

Judging by the comments, this is the perfect example of how propaganda works. Every country uses its propaganda in the interests of the country. For example, now everyone in the "civilised Western world" thinks that Russia is attacking Ukraine because Ukraine is good and Russia is bad. This explanation is only appropriate for the children in the kindergarten but it works worldwide for many people. Something will be overreached, something omitted, something is just a blatant lie.
Ukrainians aren't saint people. I think you know nothing of the war crimes in the Eastern ex-regions of Ukraine. You don't know how many thousands of civilians in Ukraine died there and how did they die. Women, children, elderly people. You probably don't know how Ukrainians killed the other Ukrainians just burning them alive. You don't know how snipers shooting rural people when they're feeding chickens, shooting just for fun. You don't know how the Ukrainians shelling the houses of the other Ukrainians to force them live in the basements or not to live at all.
The things like these should not happen in the 21st century. The Ukrainians should not treat the other Ukrainians like subhumans. Especially, when no one sees the difference between them.
Ukraine in NATO and Ukraine with nuclear weapon is like a monkey with a grenade. There is hope everything will be over in one week.

No, lol . Putin´s goverment likes to have puppets to rule at its western border in order to have influence over them, as soon as any of the ex soviet countries shows a bit of interest to the western side Putin gets mad and act in consecuence against these countries.

Btw the tittle of this topic is wrong, it should be called "Cold war part II"

EDIT: The monkey with a grenade is what Putin has in chechnya among other sides or borders. you got the right definition but not the right country.

sincerely someone from the "civilised Western world"

Last edited by Zwarrior (2022-02-25 15:45:42)

Rinjo · 2022-02-25 15:31:28

Here is an example of Russian propaganda !!!!
head of Russian diplomacy Siergey Lavrow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUulfwLcZlc

translate: "Russia could not remain indifferent to the requests of the heads of your states for help in the fight against the aggressor.
In line with our allied commitments. President Putin has decided to conduct a special military operation to demilitarize and defash Ukraine,
so that the Ukrainians, freed from oppression, can freely decide about their future" - he is lying 100%.
the same for Vladyslaw Deine.... What faithful liars!
Putin does not like the fact that the current government of Ukraine (democratically elected) wants to join the European Union and NATO.

KarlsoN · 2022-02-25 15:56:44

Where have you all been in nearest past?
During war in Syria?
During war in Yugoslavia?
During war in Iraq?
During war in Afganistan?

Im not saying Putin is doing good, i really confused and sorry about what is going on...
But all the world was keeping silence during all conflicts which were started by USA (just imagin, they are fighting on other continents).

Do you guys remember crysis in Cuba? America were defending their borders from "RED BEAR".
i'm not making excuses for anyone, but Putin now doing same. He is defending our borders from NATO. NATO has military bases now almost everywhere near Russia. He doesn't want to see any of them in Ukraine...

The other question is: where is the legendary "European union"? Are they defending Ukraine? Germany sended to Ukraine 5000 helmets. France gave money.
I found all of this really strange. Nobody cares about Ukraine.
All around are hypocrites and scums.

Ferd Grapperhaus wrote:

I hope Russia will suffer hard, in every way.

Am i deserved that? Or may be my wife, or 6 years old son?
Think before you say such things.

Zody · 2022-02-25 16:08:14

None of these wars were fought to annex a country or to install a puppet government. The US government are murderers no doubt but the invasion of ukraine now is simply different. It also doesnt matter. this is about Russia's aggression and not about the US. These wars were also criticized a lot but the US's motives were different as well. Putin invades Ukraine for his own ambition for his crude theories for his revisionist version of history. The guy claims that Ukraine is under Nazi rule...

Why do you wonder that countries want to join NATO instead of having to live under Putin's oppression? I also would join an alliance that doesnt meddle in my affairs and offers me protection through nuclear deterrent. Look at Belarus. Completely controlled by Putin, no wonder baltic countries wanted to join NATO so they can keep their indenpendence. And see what happens if Putin doesnt like what your country does. He invades you. East European states joing NATO is a story about Russia's aggression and not about Western expansionism.

The EU is being shameful atm, absolutely agree. Our chancellor especially is making a mockery of Germany rn imo.

Last edited by Zody (2022-02-25 16:10:28)

seventy · 2022-02-25 16:49:18

Zody wrote:

None of these wars were fought to annex a country or to install a puppet government.

Excuse me, please? US Army is currently occupying 1/3 of Syria but almost nobody talking about it. Also the open goal when things started in 2011 was to topple Assad and replace him with whatever was available (which was Salafist Muslims at that time). I am not here for defending either NATO or Russia. Both are just playing "chess" game as was always usual in human history. Nameless is obviously wearing Russian glasses just as you are wearing "Western" glasses. I think you guys need to wake up. No ordinary people are going to benefit from these wars. Stop being manipulated so easily ffs.

Zody · 2022-02-25 16:56:09

Syria was a civil war where both sides had interest in supporting one of the war parties. No clue how my statement that it wasnt a war to annex Syria or install a puppet government is wrong here. Maybe you should stop being manipulated so easily?

KarlsoN · 2022-02-25 16:57:07

KarlsoN wrote:

Zody wrote:
The guy claims that Ukraine is under Nazi rule...
It is a problem. Neo-Nazi is a huge problem in international community. Ukraine has a lot of Nazis. So, this is not "empty words".
https://www.thenation.com/article/archi … t-ukraine/

seventy wrote:

Both are just playing "chess" game as was always usual in human history. Stop being manipulated so easily ffs.

That's the point.
EU, USA, Ukraine and Russia - all 4 are responsable for Ukraine situation.
EU - no real support
USA - USA is everywhere with their hands and opinions
Ukraine - nazi's, ignorance of Minsk's agreements
Russia - agressor.

Zody wrote:

annex

Who said Ukraine will be annexed? Your dreams?

Last edited by KarlsoN (2022-02-25 17:02:02)

Zody · 2022-02-25 17:00:06

There are no neonazis in the ukranian government. there is no genozid. stop believing these lies. Putin wants the sowjetunion back. the only reason we have this war.

KarlsoN · 2022-02-25 17:06:00

Zody wrote:

There are no neonazis in the ukranian government. there is no genozid. stop believing these lies.

How do you know where is the truth? Watching TV? lmao.
Do i need to send you videos where Ukrainians "gopnics" beat people in Kiev for Russian speach?
Or you need a video where Ukranin fans on olympic games 2022 singing song something like "kill Russians"?
Dont be an idiot please. Ukraine has nazis, it is fact!
Since Bandera, or even earlier.

msbd · 2022-02-25 17:21:28

Can't say much about alleged crimes and such. But one thing is clear. The attack was planned long in advance. The story that their army was making an exercise, was about to leave and then suddenly decided to make a full-scale attack due to imminent human rights violations is so obviously fabricated that nobody can seriously believe it.

This attack was clearly planned for months... This is not how a reactive military assault looks like to protect some people from genocide...

Zody · 2022-02-25 17:29:56

KarlsoN wrote:

Zody wrote:
There are no neonazis in the ukranian government. there is no genozid. stop believing these lies.
How do you know where is the truth? Watching TV? lmao.
Do i need to send you videos where Ukrainians "gopnics" beat people in Kiev for Russian speach?
Or you need a video where Ukranin fans on olympic games 2022 singing song something like "kill Russians"?
Dont be an idiot please. Ukraine has nazis, it is fact!
Since Bandera, or even earlier.

Russia has nazis too. Just because you have them doesnt mean they are in the government. makes no sense to discuss this when you really believe the things putin said about the ukrainian government and the other falsehoods he claimed.

nämeless · 2022-02-25 17:43:29

Ukrainian president is not a Nazi, he's Jewish, actually. But he has support of Nazi battalions. I don't offer sources, you can find them on your own via Google. Key words: azov, tornado, aidar, praviy sektor etc.

Torch march in the name of Waffen SS Galician.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waff … _Galician)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y11zOJHSNME

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4LFVn1oePE

The funeral of the last SS soldier with Ukrainian Presidential Orchestra.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LVUI0VEXl8

The celebration of Bandera's birthday. He's known for slaughtering Polish civilians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWOMXFTfU80

There are hundreds of videos available. You can find all of them in Google.

nämeless · 2022-02-25 18:04:38

msbd wrote:

Can't say much about alleged crimes and such. But one thing is clear. The attack was planned long in advance. The story that their army was making an exercise, was about to leave and then suddenly decided to make a full-scale attack due to imminent human rights violations is so obviously fabricated that nobody can seriously believe it.
This attack was clearly planned for months... This is not how a reactive military assault looks like to protect some people from genocide...

I agree on everything but fabrication of the violations of the human rights.

KarlsoN · 2022-02-25 18:10:16

Zody wrote:

Russia has nazis too. Just because you have them doesnt mean they are in the government. makes no sense to discuss this when you really believe the things putin said about the ukrainian government and the other falsehoods he claimed.

in Russia you go to prison for posting a picture with nazy symbolics.
feel the difference?

Last edited by KarlsoN (2022-02-25 18:10:27)

Meow · 2022-02-25 18:15:53

All countries have their own propaganda, each side of this conflict has its own propaganda. Western countries have their propaganda, as well as Russia, China... Americans and Europeans have been breeded to think that Russia is evil. Breeded to judge them while closing the eyes on what our selfish governments do.
I don't share this point of view.

I share this one : Stupidity has no country, no religion, no skin colour, no sex. Stupidity, you can find it everywhere.

All we can do is to start thinking one step upper, to understand why others act like they do.

KarlsoN wrote:

But all the world was keeping silence during all conflicts which were started by USA (just imagin, they are fighting on other continents).

I agree with that. USA can make war for their own interest, nobody used to move an inch by the past. Putin is doing exactly the same in Ukraine. I disapprove both of them.

I won't blame russians for what is happening, I'm far too clever. Nor Ukrainians nor other people.
Only the governments, and especially those who still think in the XXI-th century that problems must be solved with weapons.

I'm french, living in the country of "freedom, equality and fraternity" and I just fear what could juridically happen to myself if I develop more what I think. Because in here "equality" has never been more than a nice dream, and "freedom" starts to be one too.

I'm sad for all the people who suffer in Ukraine and in the world, and for those who will continue suffering from our worldwide hypocrit and selfish governments.

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