#1 2019-02-19 14:03:22

Horza
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For the lovers of history

I open this topic to let people share news or articles about the world war II, battles, equipments, weapons, the life during wars, the secret operations in occupied countries etc.
I just dont want to see trolls or fake news here.

cover-r4x3w1000-5c6a874f4eac9-usshornet.jpg

I just read a french article about the discovery of USS Hornet. The aircraft carrier was present during Wake battle and was sunk after it. Check the article (for french speaker) :
https://www.sciencesetavenir.fr/archeo- … tor=CS2-37

And for english (I didnt search other articles, it was the first to come) :
https://www.foxnews.com/science/wreck-o … th-pacific

Last edited by Horza (2019-02-19 14:03:51)

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#2 2019-02-19 20:56:17

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Re: For the lovers of history

Good topic!!

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#3 2019-02-19 21:07:27

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Re: For the lovers of history

Simo Häyhä (1905-2002)
The White Dead
43-DFB07-E-1998-4322-8-CBB-CD6-FC20-C1022.jpg
During the Winter War of 1939 to 1940, when the Red Army invaded Finland, Häyhä fought in Kollaa and Ulismaa, where he became Finland’s most famous WWII sniper. Nicknamed “The White Death” due to his infallible sharpshooter skills, Häyhä is credited with at least 500 kills, and by some counts, as many as 542. He was wounded near the end of the war when he was shot in the face by an exploding bullet, he was hospitalized in a coma for a week and awoke on 13 March 1940, the same day peace was declared.
And he never used a scope...

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#4 2019-02-19 22:49:48

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Re: For the lovers of history

...

I can tell you, you won't believe how good you can see the target on Iron Sight over 400 meters.

I used the Stg57, Stg90 and the K31. Shooting at 600 meters is even possible, but 400 is nothing special with the STG57 and K31. (And also with other Rifles from those times).

Btw. In the field trainings we shot allways on half body targets, (+half covered)  at 400 meters. (In the forrest and the parcour was not known).

In shooting range it's usualy 300m, but outside allways 400m.

Some 800m iron sight shooting with K31, but they cheat with lafette smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obr4mZ-zojU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjAn_HUFNws

...

Last edited by Arkos (2019-02-19 23:29:06)

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#5 2019-02-21 08:43:14

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Re: For the lovers of history

Italy is a wonderful country, and few years ago when I discovered the map of Cassino in game. Then I have checked the story of the battle of Italy. In fact Allies didnt want a lot to liberate Italy first (like the invasion of south of France during summer 1944) and for many months, allies would lost lot of men before the final battle of Anzio and Cassino.
Because Cassino was to strong (because of the river to cross and the mountains), allies landed in Anzio behind Gustave line (where is Cassino) to divide SS troops and capture Cassino.
Why Cassino ? Because it's in middle of Italy between Roma and Napoli, and Cassino was the main strong border between Roma and allies troops.

Then check the map operation :
1200px-BattleforRome1944DiademPlan.svg.png

And how Cassino was bombed before (not french but polish troops helped by indian troops) :
7LOMKZMTANEZHDU47N566COKE4.jpg


Cassino is now like this after a rebuilt. The region is not really rich, but if you love nature and landscapes, come here !
1200px-Monte_Cassino_Cmentarz_1.JPG

800px-Monte_Cassino_interior_02.jpg

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#6 2019-02-21 18:46:38

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Re: For the lovers of history

Horza, pls tell as something about Maginot line, how the French spend enormous amount of money to build that fortifications and how Germans just moved around it and gave u doggy style. big_smile

P.S
Who won the 1940 Tour De France?
- Germany !!

Last edited by Dionysus (2019-02-21 18:47:17)

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#7 2019-02-21 19:10:45

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Re: For the lovers of history

...

And how it ended? You have forgotten?

Today everybody is buying new tanks, planes, everything is digital and at the end nothing works, because of backdoor or electronic
harassing.

Usually even the best plan doesn't survive the first moments of a battle.

...

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#8 2019-02-21 23:50:12

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Re: For the lovers of history

It ended with German victory.
But liberation of France by American, British, Canadian and Australian troops is entirely different thing.

Look at this video Arkos.. big_smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgQNP4O6Z4E

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#9 2019-02-22 00:36:19

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Re: For the lovers of history

...

I guess you missed something.

Germans lost... one battle is not the war.

...

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#10 2019-02-22 00:48:09

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Re: For the lovers of history

I asked Horza about Maginot line and its effectiveness during German invasion... - Germany won - so German victory.
But u went right to the end of WWII, and I again said what happened, who liberated France etc..

P.S Hitler wants his gold back tongue

Last edited by Dionysus (2019-02-22 00:48:58)

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#11 2019-02-22 07:45:20

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Re: For the lovers of history

Hello Dionysus, for a long time of my life I didnt like the period of first war and I have lived a few near Luxembourg and during this time I have visited many places here in France and in Germany about wars (From middle-Age, from New Republic after Revolution, from Napoleon, from Napoleon III and from a lot about first war).
That's not my favourite french region to be honnest, for landscapes but there is a certain charm. Local history is only about wars not like other regions.
Well to come back to your question, for those who dont know a lot about french history (that I could easly understand lol) after first world war, France has to rebuild the nation and specially the North, lot of cities were bombed, were destroyed to 1%, men died (like Germany lost lot of men during the war). I invite you to visit the main place for it, Verdun and Douaumont Ossuary. For a few moment after war, France and Allies focused to know how Germany has to pay (and how organise Germany and Austria [and Syria too, but that's an other debate]) Well after Treaty of Versailles, Germany lost his army, lost Alsace and Lorraine (by the way check this french song during first world war, still sing in french foreign army):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlogKJhiGOQ

At the end of 20's, french government had choice to set a better defense in north (until 1935, Germany always thinking French army was the best army in Europe), they choose the Maginot Line (Maginot is the french minister for war, I like this periode we call army minister the war minister lol).
The line started from the east to the north sea under Belgium (Belgium was an allies for France then the defense was cheaper).
Dont forget the south East with Italy, with fascist gouvernment, the democratic french gouvernment didnt trust him.
Check this map :
CarteLigneMaginot.png

German army invaded France by the Ardennes forrest (present in game by battle of bulge 1944), the forrest was considerated by France to be impraticable by panzer and vehicules, german army trained lot of month to search a way to cross rivers and mountains and prepare the plan to attack here. First weakness in french defense.
Second weakness : Global french colonies. You have to know, France had the second biggest colonial empire behind British Empire, they were present in Syria to maintain control here, in Africa, In south East of Asia and in Algeria (Algeria wasnt a colony but a department like Paris, Lyon region, Bordeaux region etc) Algeria was never invaded during world war by the way.
And army was present a lot in south East in italian border.
Last weakness : vehicules and mainly : planes. For a long time, France didnt invest in new planes and a lot (Nazis had double number than french and british in France). Second : tank, France didnt invest a lot in number of tanks, but French defeated a lot of panzers, some battles were really fucked up for germans.
To say something else, watch the film Dunkerque, but the film dont show french men sacrified in city for the british army hmm

Well if you wanted to troll me Dionysus, I know a lot of History and I think no country is better than an other, Germany lost lot of battles like England, Italy, Spain. I dont know why people love to kidding about french army during world war. They forget for years, civils prepare, killed ss troops in countryside I can talk about too. I come from a region called little Russia because SS couldnt invade the region during the war.
You can check the second radio call of Charles De Gaulle for french nation after the defeat :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjPeo1IY05o

The song remix of it (lol) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmxWqL9a6ZA

In 70's great funny movies were done presenting french soldier during 1940, all french people can still laugh about it like in 1970.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP47q42F11s

Well If you wanted to troll me, wrong guy Diony, I'm maybe more adult than you hmm
Respect of others, stay curious and kind will be better for everyone.

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#12 2019-02-23 00:23:42

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Re: For the lovers of history

I wasnt trolling you, i just stated facts. big_smile
And I wanted to hear your opinion on subject, opinion from a Frenchman.
About French ''weaknesses'', well France didn't really have plan B.
They invested all on Maginot line, thinking it would be more then enough and it would have been, because if Germans tried to breach those defenses - they would fail.
I mean even if they breached it in some part, french army could deploy reserves and sucesfully confrot already depleted German units.
Only way for Germans to win would be to breach Maginot line, but to breach it on wide front, to create a big gap, so that German blitzkrieg tactics could be implemented, but it wasnt possible to make such a gap in Maginot line + Germans wanted to win as fast as they can and with minimum losses in manpower and equipment.
So, they invaded through Belgium.. and succeeded.
About non-existing plan B.
It was thought that Germans would not be able to penetrate through Maginot line and that they would suffer heavy casualties + British forces would reinforce French lines and British navy would cut off German sea supply lines.
What supply lines? Well those who brought food to Germany.
Germany had no iron, food and fuel for prolounged war(they only had coal).
And French knew that.
So, tactis would be: wait till Germans loose manpower trying to break line and wait for them to spend those essential materials.
And then they would have no other choice then to surrender. War is won, minimal casualties on french side, everything is great again!
But... things developed much different.
About Great Britain, they couldnt do shit and they didnt want to.
U say that French lost many soldiers while guarding rear for retreating British forces and I agree, it's enough to see numbers of captured and evacuated soldiers in Dunkerque, I mean what nationality they were.
Brits used every other country to deal with Germans, so that Germany would strecth their forces - forces which could be used to invade Great Britain.
For example: when kingdom of Yugoslavia joined Tripartite Pact, Brits send their spies to make native people rebell against that decission, riots started in capital Belgrade.. and Yugoslavia was forced to whitdraw from Pact under preassure from ppl, just 2 days after joining that same pact.
After that British promised they would help Yugoslavia in case of land invasion by Axis forces.
Axis invaded - and Great Britain didn't do shit !
They just used Yugoslavia to slow down Germans and to move German attention from themselves to another country..
Same thing they did to France, to Poland etc...

Last edited by Dionysus (2019-02-23 00:36:03)

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#13 2019-02-23 01:18:32

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Re: For the lovers of history

...

Plan B showed up as the Resistance smile

And you forget something. Looking back it seems easy to judge. But in those times the decision they had to make were not easy.

Btw. The germans had also no plan B.

At the end, i can say thx!, to Hitlers stupidity, Nazi German lost the war.


> They had Jets in 1941.

And not only the Me262, but also the Ho-229

Image BBCode test

Hitler meant, those are not important. He wanted tanks and Bombers. 

(Even the BF109 Adolf wanted to make Bomber of it. No wonder, the were accustomed to success of the fast won battles).


> They could have made the Nuke.

At the end, we can be happy they started the war in 1939 and not as planed in 1944.

If they would have made progress in WepaonTec the allies wouldn't have a chance. (Jets, Nuke)

Just reminds if a nuke would have been mounted to a V2.


> And look at those insane projects like Maus.

Image BBCode test


> Or those WindCannons

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> Fritz-X

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Natter, Comet, etc. and if i'm not wrong they tried also to manage a Railgun, beside many other projects.

...

Project Habakuk big_smile

Hehe, the British army wanted to build a carrier made of ice. 1200m long... etc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk

...

> The gay bomb big_smile

Laboratories in Dayton > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_bomb

...

> I-400 Submarine (could transport 3 Bombers and was heavy weaponed)

The japanese had some interesting project.  The I-400 Submarine, the forefather of all todays Submarines.  But they builded just 3 and too late.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400-class_submarine

Inside 3 Aichi M6A  Bombers (Fall combat Bomber) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aichi_M6A

But the war was over, when they were on the way, (somewhere in the Pacific), to blow up something. A further order should be the Panamacanal and New York.

...

> I forgot the "Adolf Kanone"

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolfkanone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40.6_cm_SK_C/34_gun


But i guess, there was even a bigger one, which they used to shoot over the canal to London. But it was not effective.

...

Even in switzerland they had the dream to defend an russian invasion.

They bulded the Reduit.

In the alps they had artillery guns with ammunition to shot 24h for 7 years.  And also food for many years, machine-, weapon-, ammunition-, battery-factories, ... just everything you need to defend the reds. Even airports in the mountains.

Ofc, as we know today, never used. 

Swiss closed tenth of thousends of Bunkers, but we have still 300'000, more then for the entire folk smile

Even in our house is a StealBetonBunker with ABC-Filter, toilet, beds, etc. It was law to build one, when we expanded the house in 1978.

...

Last edited by Arkos (2019-02-23 12:10:17)

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#14 2019-02-23 01:44:35

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Re: For the lovers of history

Arkos wrote:

...

Dont forget the Type XXI submarine smile

(also the japs made a submarine aircraft carrier, but thats another story)

Last edited by bud (2019-02-23 01:46:37)

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#15 2019-02-23 01:47:22

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Re: For the lovers of history

...

The Wolfsrudel was allready wiped out.

Submarines were not anymore effectiv after the British could get hand on the enigma.

Today it's clear germany lost the war allready in 1941. The biggest mistake was their 3 front war, beside the early beginning.

Adolf had a plan, a dangerous one.

But the war started 5 years earlyer then planned, and the combination of Cocain, Pervitin and many other substances and the fast easy won battles made him think he can win everything, everywhere with anywhat.

...

Last edited by Arkos (2019-02-23 02:24:41)

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#16 2019-02-23 01:52:32

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Re: For the lovers of history

...

There were also some other nice machines like the Dornier Do 335.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_335

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWD7QmEMCXA

...

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#17 2019-02-23 02:07:16

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Re: For the lovers of history

...

> The "Amerika-Bomber" Horton XVIII (never built)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_H.XVIII

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The Arado E.555 (never built like many other Arado-projects)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arado_E.555

Image BBCode test

...

Last edited by Arkos (2019-02-23 02:14:04)

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#18 2019-02-23 02:22:51

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Re: For the lovers of history

...

A very nice site with all german planes of WW2

http://www.luftarchiv.de/


Image BBCode test

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Image BBCode test
...

Last edited by Arkos (2019-02-23 02:23:21)

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#19 2019-02-23 02:36:35

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Re: For the lovers of history

If Germany failed to move through Belgium, they would push through Maginot line.. no mather wath it costs. So, it can be called plan B. big_smile
Would it be sucessful or not.. now thats the real question.

About German tech during Hitler era.. it's just WOW!
Todays B-2 bomber is made from German HO-229.
ho-229 stayed in some warehouse in US until mid 1970's, when some smart guys began to understand its concept.
But when it was captured in 1945, allies laughed to it.
That alone shows how far ahead Germans were with their designs and ideas.
First modern assault rifle was STG44, Russians made Ak-47 on its design.
First nightvision was made also by Germans, it was called ''Vampir'' and it was mounted on Stg44.
First balistic missiles were also produced in Germany, V-2 rockets.
They had best tanks of their time, for example front armor of King Tiger was never breached during it's use in war.
It was either destroyed from the air(allies had total air superiority later in war) or was abandoned by it's own crew because of lack of fuel or malfunction.
I remember reading that once one King Tiger confronted around 60 T-34, destroyed around 40 and returned to base because he ran out of ammo.
But, as Stalin said ''quantity has its own quality''.
Number of those tanks where too few to have big efect on war outcome.
Soviets could easly replace their losses, Germans could not.
Also they had many submarine inovations, for example: first sound torpedo, when u fire it it follows sound of propellers. Etc....

And funny fact, first sex-doll was invented during WWII in Germany. big_smile
It is said that Hitler himself came to that idea, because he didnt want his soldiers to breed with local population of certain occupied country.

P.S I don't know how many of u know about Nazi experiments with flying saucers, they even made few of them. U can find pictures of them.
Those guys from Vril society made it. Now who are ''Vril'' society, well google it .
I'm too lazy to find pictures of everything i write. big_smile

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#20 2019-02-23 03:17:24

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Re: For the lovers of history

I dont remember all the facts about the sub, i just know it was real dangerous and ccame out late in the war.

I think it used Hydrogen peroxide fuel and was really fast under water

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#21 2019-02-23 03:22:02

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Re: For the lovers of history

...

The Distraction was making them believe they come over switzerland.

In the daytime they moved allways the same troops to the german border to switzerland and in the night they retreated hidden, to make them believe, they bring the big mass of troops to the border to fall into france from swiss.

...

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#22 2019-02-23 06:50:31

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Re: For the lovers of history

Yeah Diony then I can understand smile
But to explain more about maginot line it was really strong I have checked lot of documents about it, it was second cites every where on border with full weapon (because german knew not a lot about it, lot of fake news by french medias at this period to hide reality about maginot line to and why german lost lot of times to prepare thé attack).
I dont like this period a lot because we lost thé war of course but also how France was weak and was like you know a guy who knows they are strong after 1st world war and know they have an army and that's it. Like Brasil in 2014 defeated by german at world cup lol.
During the 1930 with great crises you know all countries were fucked up in Europe, germany and Italy choose dictatures, spain was in civil war (I invite you to read thé book from George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia) ans choose Franco after it. Only France and GB stayed in democracy, and I dont know a lot about how was GB in 1930's and after how Churchill arrived to be Prime minister but for France we had lot of troubles to like in germany, royalists were strong during this times, communists too and at begin a new left wing won elections and started a social reforms with first vacations for People, etc. And that's weird for me (I never talked about it specially with friends during school) because for me in 1930 I never understand why french People focus do strikes to get holidays and not focus about army.
I dont remember which general or guy near Hitler said after the war or during the war, hé said when SS came back in Rhenanie (french word for the région on the left of germany near Luxembourg, France, where coal is located, weapon factories, Steel...) well germany didnt have right to put army back here (with 30k men) and he said " if France reacted to us and attack us to push out us, it would be easy for them, but France didnt react, and we knew France and GB would never win easly after it"
That was in 1936,we could never had second world war if France and GB reacted to the occupation of Rhineland... sad

Thank you Arkos too ! I didnt know a lot about secret weapons like this, I though it was only paper projects what never created.
That's like the V2, never though if germans succedded to strike London with.


And to come back to you Dyony, look how Belgium resisted to german in 1st world war, they lost 90% of country and resisted with the rest all the war, german failed to defeat them ahah smile

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#23 2019-02-23 09:46:54

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Re: For the lovers of history

Great discussion  smile
I really like to know more about this period, I never heard anything about German - Switzerland

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#24 2019-02-23 09:56:34

Horza
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Re: For the lovers of history

Snake Eyes wrote:

Great discussion  smile
I really like to know more about this period, I never heard anything about German - Switzerland

You mean the role of Switzerland during the world war ? You can add Sweden in neutral countries.
And in an other way Spain too, but Spain was near Germany during the war, Portugal was a great place for spyer from both sides too, many french soldier/spyer/politics escape Europe to USA or England to prepare the resistance

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#25 2019-02-23 12:03:25

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Re: For the lovers of history

...

I know a story from a Tiger against weak russain tanks, where they destroyed 40 russian tanks, but as i said, weak tanks. The Tiger got hit 250 times, but didn't  came through the armor.  They had just up to 40mm canones.

...

About spain.

Franco just used the support from the germans to take control over entire spain.  He never liked the nazis nor Hitler.

And the germans just helped them to test their own strategies and planes.

...

Many V2 hit london, but it was not precise enough. And the V1 just dropped from the sky, when it run out of fuel.

Both were in a way called "Silent Death", but the V2 you really didn't realize. It was 5000km per hour fast, faster then the sound.

...

Last edited by Arkos (2019-02-23 15:43:56)

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#26 2019-02-23 15:18:20

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Re: For the lovers of history

1941, battle of Rasseiniai. Similar story about Soviet KV tank. It was an early period, when Soviets had superiority in heavy tanks but lack of communication, air support etc.
https://youtu.be/qWr269bXzfk&t=5m24s

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#27 2019-02-23 17:40:02

Snake Eyes
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Re: For the lovers of history

Horza wrote:
Snake Eyes wrote:

Great discussion  smile
I really like to know more about this period, I never heard anything about German - Switzerland

You mean the role of Switzerland during the world war ? You can add Sweden in neutral countries.
And in an other way Spain too, but Spain was near Germany during the war, Portugal was a great place for spyer from both sides too, many french soldier/spyer/politics escape Europe to USA or England to prepare the resistance

Yeah, nowadays I live in Portugal near to Estoril Cassino, there are a lot of stories about spies and refugees of WWII.

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#28 2019-02-23 19:04:56

Dionysus
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Re: For the lovers of history

Horza wrote:
Snake Eyes wrote:

Great discussion  smile
I really like to know more about this period, I never heard anything about German - Switzerland

You mean the role of Switzerland during the world war ? You can add Sweden in neutral countries.
And in an other way Spain too, but Spain was near Germany during the war, Portugal was a great place for spyer from both sides too, many french soldier/spyer/politics escape Europe to USA or England to prepare the resistance

Switzerland was neutral because Hitler used it as his personal bank, he was their best client.
Hitler made deal with them and it saved them(and made them rich).
I know that after WWII and nowdays Switzerland is something like big fortress, but before WWII it wasnt like that, I mean it could have been conquered relatively easy if Germans wanted it.
After war, Swiss kept most of the gold, art and everything else that Nazis stored there.
And one funny fact, even during the war Axis and Allies continued to trade with each other in Switzerland!

And about Sweden, well they managed to stay neutral because they were suplying Germans with iron(mainly used for tank producing).
From 1933 to 1944 they have sent iron to Germany and that's why Hitler never invaded them, had no need.
But he did invade Norway instead and one of the reasons was to ''protect'' Sweden from Allies, if Allies would somehow made deal with Norway then they would be able to compromise shipments of iron.

Spain was fascist and boring during WWII.
Francisco was playing on both cards, near end of the war he started to negotiate with Allies... sissy big_smile
Their civil war was interesting and maybe Blue division, later known as Blue legion which was formed in Spain and fought mostly on eastern front.
Blue legion fought their final battle in battle of Berlin(around 300 men by that time).
Big respect to those man, they knew what loyalty is.

And Portugal, well yes, more or less it was used by spies from both sides, to make deals etc..

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#29 2019-02-23 21:01:59

Arkos
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Re: For the lovers of history

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You know, many countries made business with Germany.  But yes, from the Swiss exports went somehow 80% to germany.

The German Reich and the Russian Sozialistic Federation had a cooperation between 1922 and 1933. (Contract of Rapalla, 16. April 1922). It ended soon, when Hitler became Chancellor.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertrag_von_Rapallo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Rapallo_(1922)

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You know, swiss had no crysis like other countries due the global economic crisis in the 30's.

The normal workers just got 10% less incoming, but the banks in those times lost 50%, (1936), the exports sunk for 1/3, but the unemployment growed just from 0.4% to 4.8%, (1936).

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https://www.eda.admin.ch/dam/PRS-Web/de … ege_DE.pdf

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Btw. Swiss Pilots shot down several allied and german planes due WW2, while they protected the border, but they forced many to land.   Neutrality doesn't mean you can't defend yourself.

Hehe, when swiss pilots shot down some german BF's Herrman Goering wanted back the ninety Bf109-e from swiss.

https://www.srf.ch/play/tv/srf-myschool … 427.766841

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Last edited by Arkos (2019-02-26 18:56:55)

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#30 2019-02-23 21:10:52

Arkos
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Re: For the lovers of history

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Some other stuff...

http://team-simple.org/forum/viewtopic. … 228#p89228

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Last edited by Arkos (2019-02-23 21:22:12)

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