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persia

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Re: World War III

thats your problem in this thread and also with the situation right now. you want to win.

What else do you have to do but put it in reverse gear.
I have no desire to win, I only make you a laughing stock for your loud statements, which are broken in 5 seconds.
example - your site rsf.org and 2-minute analysis from nameless

I know where I would rather work as journalist

The media is just one component of politics.
Any component is driven and dependent on one side or another (for example, different opposing political forces / different clans, for example, the media of Democrats and the media of Republicans in the USA)
And to believe that one of the constituent parts (media) is completely free and independent,
for this it is necessary to have a negative iq.
so in any country and in any newspaper, you would write exactly what you would be allowed to

Zody

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Re: World War III

Thats why I said you guys dont know what free press is. The media is not a component of politics. It can be their mouthpiece and supporter, sure, but in a free press you will always have opposing voices, which you guys really dont have. It of course got worse since the invasion of Ukraine, but wasnt anything near to an independent press before.

And please nameless ability to analyse something is as good as his skill to drive a tank in reverse in a league war

persia

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Re: World War III

At the head of the information impact is the company Zink Network. These guys work with more than 40 media outlets in Europe and the Baltic States. In addition, these people have collaborated with 50 "counter-extremists" and conducted "network campaigns" in Iraq, Somalia and Ukraine.

The Zink Network company includes the Thomson Reuters Foundation and, who would doubt it, Bellingcat! The first one conducts about 200 training seminars for Russian journalists annually, the second one does investigations, as a result of which Russia is always to blame, for which, in addition to money, he receives Emmy awards

tell us how the media doesn't relate to politics, lol

here is a huge investigative article, where everything is very clearly chewed up.

rus https://underside.today/2022/06/21/zinc-heil/
eng translate https://underside-today.translate.goog/ … x_tr_hl=ru

L0rd Waggachugga

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Re: World War III

Putin steps down

https://www.5080.no/nyheter/innenriks/p … dlerbolig/

Zody

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Re: World War III

Blumenthal again. I like the reputation of TheGrayzone, which is mentioned as a source:

▼Hidden text

The Grayzone is a left-wing[1] to far-left[11] news website and blog[15] founded and edited by American journalist Max Blumenthal.[12] The website, initially founded as The Grayzone Project,[16] was affiliated with AlterNet before becoming independent in early 2018.[2] The website's news content is generally considered to be fringe.[2][17][18][19] It is known for misleading reporting[20] and sympathetic coverage of authoritarian regimes,[2][13][21] in addition to its denial of the Uyghur genocide.[25] The Grayzone has spread conspiracy theories about Venezuela, Xinjiang, Syria, and other regions.[26][27] The website often publishes work written by current and former Russia Today staffers, for example, Anya Parampil and Alex Rubinstein.[28][29][30]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grayzone

I also like underside today. You can send them some bullshit and they pay you for it:

▼Hidden text

Declassify Foreign Office agents 

The Underside editors are waiting for your investigations into the people and organizations that work for the British government. 

Authors of unique materials will receive rewards:
News - 25 thousand rubles
Longread - 60 thousand rubles

Send materials to [email protected]
[email protected]  (for Russian mail)

Funny that they target British officials only

First sentence of your "article":

▼Hidden text

The Underside editors publish new material on interference in Russia's internal affairs. This is the author's text, which we received anonymously.

"trustworthy"

I tried to find the original leaks - yes two leaks about this topic existed, one in 2018 and one in 2021, but in the end there isnt one anynomous group. there are multiple. You cant verify this is true. might even have been leaked by the kremlin for propaganda purposes. of course you wanne believe it persia because it confirms your biases. I appreciate the load of nothing you posted with this article btw

persia

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Re: World War III

Blumenthal again.

in fact, I envy you and such people. It is much easier to live in illusions with such a naive point of view. They fill your head with nonsense, and you don't worry about it, you just keep repeating it. When you are given argument that can be confirmed even by elementary logic, then either just ignore it or go out.

In Russia, there is even a saying for this case: at least piss in his eyes, for him is all God's dew.

Zody

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Re: World War III

Blumenthal again.

in fact, I envy you and such people. It is much easier to live in illusions with such a naive point of view. They fill your head with nonsense, and you don't worry about it, you just keep repeating it. When you are given argument that can be confirmed even by elementary logic, then either just ignore it or go out.

In Russia, there is even a saying for this case: at least piss in his eyes, for him is all God's dew.

Prove it then. Prove me this article you shared is legit information.

persia

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Re: World War III

Prove it then. Prove me this article you shared is legit information.

No no, friend. First you prove to me that there is a completely free and independent press.

Zody

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Re: World War III

Prove it then. Prove me this article you shared is legit information.

No no, friend. First you prove to me that there is a completely free and independent press.

Whats your definition? so we have a common ground.

Meow

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Re: World War III

Zody I appreciate you, but you can't blame people of being breeded with propaganda if you don't admit to yourself that you're breeded with propaganda yourself.
Propaganda is everywhere, in every country. Because the world is divided between people who're looking for guilties and people who're looking for solutions.
If you consider that you're not led by some kind of propaganda, then you need introspection and you're the good product of the country you're living in. It's worth in every country in the world. No exception.

Last edited by Meow (2022-07-24 02:07:52)

Zody

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Re: World War III

Zody I appreciate you, but you can't blame people of being breeded with propaganda if you don't admit to yourself that you're breeded with propaganda yourself.
Propaganda is everywhere, in every country. Because the world is divided between people who're looking for guilties and people who're looking for solutions.
If you consider that you're not led by some kind of propaganda, then you need introspection and you're the good product of the country you're living in. It's worth in every country in the world. No exception.

You act like this is an universal truth. There is a difference between media agendas and media propaganda. Propaganda is in general centralized. Its utilized from top to bottom and that is not the case in the west, because of the pluralism of our media. If you wanne believe in that, thats up to you, but dont hold me accountable for your desire to feel special, enlightened or whatever. And I challenge you as well to give me prove about your claims. It should be very easy to deliver them if you are right.

Meow

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Re: World War III

Nice kick in the touch. No desire from me to feel  "enlightened" (I'm not that kind of guy). Just wondering why medias say Russia is losing while Russia is globally winning. Why Europe and west are dividing everyday. Why USA are selling more and more weapons, as they always did, in conflicts they more than partially created, as usual. Why Germany comes back to coal energy after climate agreements. Why Turkey makes compromissions for wheat and change side day after day. Why France makes more and more controls of publications... And why the common of mortals are treating Russians like criminals without trying to understand the other side. Maybe you're right, NATO is probably the Good.

Zody

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Re: World War III

Is there any substantial proof to what you claim? I would say none. In what way did the US create this conflict? How is Russia globally winning? Why isnt Russia the one starting this invasion on Ukraine?

persia

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Re: World War III

How is Russia globally winning?

if we take a special operation, then the constant seizure of territories speaks for itself. As for world politics, some of the Western sanctions have been lifted or eased by the West itself, because it harms you more than Russia. Saudi Arabia refused to increase oil production to the United States, and Biden's call was simply not answered. This has never happened before. Several countries have expressed their desire to join the BRICS. Pro-American countries express a desire to cooperate with the Russian Federation.
do you even understand what's going on?

In what way did the US create this conflict?

they organized several coups. They created a pro-American government. They pumped up the Ukrainian army with weapons, provoked Russia in every possible way. They instilled propaganda of Russophobia, starting after the collapse of the USSR. It was planned to expel the Russian Navy from the Crimea, which provoked its "return" to the Russian Federation. Are you seriously asking this question now? I can't imagine what's in your head if you don't actually see their involvement. It's totally fucked up

Zody

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Re: World War III

Keep on repeating your governments propaganda. Its still false.

Meow

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Re: World War III

Zody maybe you just refuse to look at the censorship on pro-Russia medias in Europe, made by EU itself ? Same as Russia censoring anti-war medias.
Both sides accuse each other of lying. It's not a surprise when both sides forbid other side's opinion.
In a war, the truth is the first loss.
Russia uses same kind of arguments as other countries did before, like massive destruction stuff in Iraq, Syria, when the real question was about oil and local influence ; Or Afghanistan, when the real question was opium.
I don't think that Russian arguments are more believable than any other arguments given to justify a war.
I think that an open-minded person will consider that if an event isn't seen by himself directly, then any heard information is questionable.
But maybe I'm too rational.

Sad in the XXI th century the biggest countries of the world still find that war is a solution.
Sad that Ukrainians pay the bill of this.

Last edited by Meow (2022-07-24 16:29:51)

John Gult

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Re: World War III

The Times (Great Britain) about Western propaganda and about the real state of affairs in Ukraine and the West in general:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sadl … -nlwnfd5jd

(I hope Zody can read and will be able to read this short article, maybe even be able to read the comments)

————————————————————

The Times (Великобритания) про западную пропаганду и про реальное положение дел на Украине и на Западе в целом:

https://inosmi.ru/20220724/ukraina-255154277.html

(надеюсь, Zody умеет читать и сможет прочитать эту небольшую статью, может даже сможет осилить чтение комментариев)

Zody

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Re: World War III

its behind a paywall and way longer LOL

edit: the author is also human garbage so I dont really care about his opinion. And yes this is once again an op-ed. learn the difference between that and a well researched article John

Last edited by Zody (2022-07-24 19:50:26)

Zody

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Re: World War III

But maybe I'm too rational.

no you are quite the opposite of rational. Read up why those stations were banned, for sure not because of "censorship". You can still watch them anyway if you wanted to so this censorship argument is crap. Also you wont be thrown into jail or worse like in Russa if you consume those stations here. The Ukranians pay the damn bill because of the inferiority complex of a whole damn nation ... same shit as in 1940 with Germany. Offended pride goes a long way in world history - leaders and people alike.

Last edited by Zody (2022-07-24 20:31:47)

Meow

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Re: World War III

no you are quite the opposite of rational.

because of the inferiority complex of a whole damn nation.

That statement IS rational, ofc.

Maybe rationalism is just a question of semantics.

Zody

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Re: World War III

I didnt claim that ... you claimed rationality I didnt, but I dont think Im wrong. This statement is clearly my opinion and I didnt claim otherwise. see the difference?

Last edited by Zody (2022-07-24 23:08:09)

persia

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Re: World War III

In what way did the US create this conflict?

they organized several coups. They created a pro-American government. They pumped up the Ukrainian army with weapons, provoked Russia in every possible way.

Keep on repeating your governments propaganda. Its still false.

listen to russian propaganda:

Former CIA Director James Woolsey admitted that the US interferes in the elections of other countries "only for a very good cause and in the interests of democracy"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jnhc8iFOlbk

Keep on repeating your governments propaganda. Its still false.

Earlier this month, former US National Security adviser John Bolton publicly admitted that the US government is organizing coups around the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMYzCubwLfw

Keep on repeating your governments propaganda. Its still false.

Speech by US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland in Washington at a meeting of the USA—Ukraine Foundation
US Secretary of State's Deputy: We invested $5 billion in the Maidan revolution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPVs5VuI8XI

Keep on repeating your governments propaganda. Its still false.

It was planned to expel the Russian Navy from the Crimea, which provoked its "return" to the Russian Federation.

President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko announced that in 2017 the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation will leave Crimea forever. The Head of the Ukrainian State instructed the government to prepare a draft law on the termination of international treaties on temporary stay in Ukraine of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation by July 20. By a corresponding decree, Yushchenko actually put into effect the decision of the National Security and Defense Council of May 16

Keep on repeating your governments propaganda. Its still false.

They instilled propaganda of Russophobia, starting after the collapse of the USSR.

the wife of President Yushchenko, a US citizen
On November 20, 2008, Ekaterina Yushchenko was awarded the Truman-Reagan Medal of Freedom for her "exceptional contribution to spreading the truth about the Holodomor and other crimes of Communism"

Keep on repeating your governments propaganda. Its still false.

such is it, merciless Russian propaganda, which is called logical thinking

Zody

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Re: World War III

Dude are you serious? I never said they didnt organize coups. The maidan revolution was a democratic movement though. No coup to be had here.

The 5 billion were spend from 1991 to 2014. in 2014 they only spend 86 million:

https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/201 … ce/seite-2

The propaganda concerning the black sea fleet isnt that Ukraine didnt try to expell them, its the lie that this wasnt ukraines right. challenging ukraines sovereignity

Denying the holodomor now? stay classy persia

once again:

Keep on repeating your governments propaganda. Its still false.

Meow

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Re: World War III

I didnt claim that ... you claimed rationality I didnt, but I dont think Im wrong. This statement is clearly my opinion and I didnt claim otherwise. see the difference?

Ukraine was about to join both EU and NATO. Both of these organisations are influenced by the USA.
USA have repeated their intention to set missile batteries in the eastern Europe in the last 40 years, but couldn't do so far because hosts were in none of these treaties.

By attacking Ukraine, Putin delays the sign-in both of these organisations, and profits by annexing eastern (industrial) and southern (harbours on the Black Sea) parts of Ukraine ; And more, links Crimea by land to the rest of Russia.

Was it a good idea ? Time will tell us ; Did he expect Scandinavian countries to join NATO ? I don't know.
Not sure it was the best thing to do for Russia, maybe he just found himself back to the wall and decided to bite.

It's a bit more believable than some "inferiority complex", for what a guy calibered like Putin wouldn't get the blood warm.

Last edited by Meow (2022-07-24 23:54:42)

Zody

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Re: World War III

This is getting tiring. I said nation not Putin. He has his cold hearted calculations at mind. But I will repeat what I said a few times now: nothing, really nothing that went down the last 30 years justifys a full blown invasion into Ukraine with thousands of civilian deaths. nothing. This myth of a backed off Russia like an animal that is cornered is also really tiring.

Meow

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Re: World War III

nothing that went down the last 30 years justifys a full blown invasion into Ukraine with thousands of civilian deaths.

Agreed.

nämeless

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Re: World War III

Also you wont be thrown into jail or worse like in Russa if you consume those stations here.

German journalist Alina Lipp is sentenced to 3 years of prison in Germany by correspondence for publications in Telegram about civil war in Ukraine. If she gets back to Germany, she will be imprisoned. Her father's bank accounts are already frozen, her colleague is not allowed to work as a journalist for 5 years because of prohibition and employment ban.

https://ria.ru/20220617/zhurnalistka-1795967295.html

I have a video where she speaks in Russian about this. She has very lovely accent.

https://vk.com/video-163061027_456269262

Last edited by nämeless (2022-07-25 00:58:25)

Zody

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Re: World War III

She wasnt sentenced to anything yet and she broke international law. grow up

nämeless

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Re: World War III

The international law of the truth concealment?

Zody

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Re: World War III

Apparently this:

▼§ 13 Verbrechen der Aggression

§ 13 Verbrechen der Aggression
(1) Wer einen Angriffskrieg führt oder eine sonstige Angriffshandlung begeht, die ihrer Art, ihrer Schwere und ihrem Umfang nach eine offenkundige Verletzung der Charta der Vereinten Nationen darstellt, wird mit lebenslanger Freiheitsstrafe bestraft.
(2) Wer einen Angriffskrieg oder eine sonstige Angriffshandlung im Sinne des Absatzes 1 plant, vorbereitet oder einleitet, wird mit lebenslanger Freiheitsstrafe oder mit Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter zehn Jahren bestraft. Die Tat nach Satz 1 ist nur dann strafbar, wenn
1.
der Angriffskrieg geführt oder die sonstige Angriffshandlung begangen worden ist oder
2.
durch sie die Gefahr eines Angriffskrieges oder einer sonstigen Angriffshandlung für die Bundesrepublik Deutschland herbeigeführt wird.
(3) Eine Angriffshandlung ist die gegen die Souveränität, die territoriale Unversehrtheit oder die politische Unabhängigkeit eines Staates gerichtete oder sonst mit der Charta der Vereinten Nationen unvereinbare Anwendung von Waffengewalt durch einen Staat.
(4) Beteiligter einer Tat nach den Absätzen 1 und 2 kann nur sein, wer tatsächlich in der Lage ist, das politische oder militärische Handeln eines Staates zu kontrollieren oder zu lenken.
(5) In minder schweren Fällen des Absatzes 2 ist die Strafe Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter fünf Jahren.

§ 13 Преступление агрессии
(1) Тот, кто ведет агрессивную войну или совершает любой другой акт агрессии, который по своему характеру, тяжести и масштабам представляет собой вопиющее нарушение Устава Организации Объединенных Наций, наказывается пожизненным заключением.
(2) Тот, кто планирует, готовит или инициирует агрессивную войну или любой другой акт агрессии по смыслу пункта 1, наказывается пожизненным лишением свободы или лишением свободы на срок не менее десяти лет. Преступление в соответствии с предложением 1 подлежит наказанию только в том случае, если
1.
велась агрессивная война или был совершен другой акт агрессии или
2.
опасность агрессивной войны или иного акта агрессии для Федеративной Республики Германия.
(3) Акт агрессии - это применение вооруженной силы государством против суверенитета, территориальной целостности или политической независимости государства или иным образом несовместимое с Уставом Организации Объединенных Наций.
(4) Только лицо, которое фактически находится в положении, позволяющем контролировать или направлять политические или военные действия государства, может быть участником деяния, предусмотренного пунктами 1 и 2.
(5) В менее серьезных случаях, предусмотренных пунктом 2, наказанием является лишение свободы на срок не менее пяти лет.

Переведено с помощью www.DeepL.com/Translator (бесплатная версия)

Like I said she is just accused of this. They say she encouraged her followers to commit crimes under this section of German law - not international my bad. Innocent until proven guilty. Might just be a formality as well because someone reported her. Blowing this up as some sort of proof of whatever is the silly part though.