Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

Sepp · 2016-10-14 02:00:15

Some thoughts on the relative strengths and weaknesses of the Tiger vs M10 are in my estimation as follows.

1) Tiger has slightly more armor than M10.

2) M10 has slightly more cannon power than Tiger.

3) 1 cancels 2 out so a fair trade off.

4) Against lights (Sherman Panzer III) the Tiger has to hit the light in the hull 3 times to kill. M10 needs to hit the hull of the light 2 times to kill. This is a big advantage for the M10 when shot reload times for both Tiger and M10 are the same. When considering the distance that can be closed by an enemy light over 4 seconds (Tiger and M10 shot reload time) it means the light driver gets to close the distance on the enemy Tiger and a much better chance of a bail and mine or ex pack. Advantage M10.

5) The Tiger's cannon yields slightly less splash damage than the M10. This is another bonus for the M10 for obvious reasons. Firstly it means in a heavy duel that the M10 can kill of blow the Tiger driver away from their tank easier when a repair is being performed outside of the tank. Advantage M10.

6) Tiger tracks are twice as wide as M10 tracks, making for a smaller target area to aim at on the M10. Advantage M10.

7) Recoil. This is something I am not exactly sure of, but it seems the Tiger has a more pronounced recoil physics than the Tiger. This could be down to suspension travel. I think the M10 despite having a slightly more powerful cannon actually produces less recoil than the Tiger. So I am calling advantage M10.

8) Pad sitting. This is a very important area because an enemy light on a pad can still be made to burn with 2 shots to the hull from an M10. But a Tiger needs 3 shots at the hull to produce the same effect. When factoring in the shot reload time for the heavies (4 seconds) this is advantage M10.

9) Flank shots. An M10 can make a light burn with a single shot to the flank or side of tracks. A Tiger takes two shots to kill an enemy light with a hit to the same area. Advantage M10.

10) Repair. As the Tiger has slightly more armor than the M10 it means the M10 takes less time to repair to full strength than the Tiger. Important when shot reload times are factored. Advantage M10.

These are all observations I have made that added up, means a clear overall game advantage for the M10 over the Tiger.

Points 1 to 3 should be self evident.

Does anyone disagree or have an opinion on points 4 to 10?

Melfius I · 2016-10-14 02:07:25

interesting analization, i didnt examined it so much only i can say that he german tank in the game is a Panzerkampfwagen IV ausf. F1,or atleast looks like it

Arkos · 2016-10-14 02:30:37

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Both tanks can be destroyed with one good shot...

...

Finn Balor · 2016-10-14 02:32:16

i can blow tank with one zook.

Sepp · 2016-10-14 02:33:08

My bad, you are right it is a Panzer 4 in game, but strangely equipped with the low velocity 57mm cannon. I am not sure the Germans produced any in this variation as the Panzer 4 was an upgraded Panzer 3 specifically designed to counter the T-34 and thus equipped with a higher velocity 75mm cannon.

Last edited by Anonymouse (2016-10-14 02:33:21)

Arkos · 2016-10-14 02:36:02

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Panzer IV had a 75mm canon... allways

...

Sepp · 2016-10-14 02:38:37

Please stick to the points raised (4 to 10). Even a Doughboy knows a tank is easier destroyed with a shot to the rear whatever kind of tank it is. I expect this applies today as it did 60 years ago. And if you are a tank driver who wants most armor on the rear of his machine than the front then I can only say that is a weapon designed to flee not fight.

Arkos · 2016-10-14 02:42:19

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1 Shot on the Tracks from the side and both are down... From the back it's not possible at M10, (as far as i know), and i don't know if it works to destroy the Tiger from behind with one shot for sure, ... i mean allways.

Also shooting at the tracks from the front works... but from the side is easyer.

...

Last edited by Arkos (2016-10-14 02:43:52)

Sepp · 2016-10-14 02:46:18

Arkos wrote:

...
1 Shot on the Tracks from the side and both are down... From the back it's not possible at M10, (as far as i know), and i don't know if it works to destroy the Tiger from behind with one shot for sure, ... i mean allways.
Also shooting at the tracks from the front works... but from the side is easyer.
...

9) Flank shots. An M10 can make a light burn with a single shot to the flank or side of tracks. A Tiger takes two shots to kill an enemy light with a hit to the same area. Advantage M10.

Arkos · 2016-10-14 02:48:21

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I'm talking to kill a M10 with a tiger or a tiger with an M10.

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Sepp · 2016-10-14 02:52:34

Neither produces a 1 shot kill. I have seen it happen only once and because of that it must have been a bug of some kind.

Arkos · 2016-10-14 02:56:53

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Nono it happends... The question is if you make it unseen to his side ...

Also destroying a light with one shot from a heavy from the side in the tracks is no problem... but you have to hit it on the right place. Mostly below the middle of the tracks, (more to the ground).

And... yes, it can be, but as you know, ... there are also bugs to the other side ... you shoot at a tank and it is not damaged or not as much it should be.

...

Last edited by Arkos (2016-10-14 02:57:11)

Sepp · 2016-10-14 03:00:03

Arkos, have you tried armor trials? Have a go at shooting a light to the flank or side of tracks. The M10 makes the light burn one shot. The Tiger cannot produce the same effect with a single shot. This is point 9).

HoOK · 2016-10-14 05:30:49

Sepp you are totally right on all points.

co0nic · 2016-10-14 07:08:54

Sepp... 1vs1 2easy.

MightyZo0K · 2016-10-14 09:55:41

co0nic wrote:

Sepp... 1vs1 2easy.

coonic, pls

Finn Balor · 2016-10-14 10:33:45

M10 is tough enough.
i can't blow it in 1 zook.

Sepp · 2016-10-14 20:14:45

You can always challenge me Coonic. And even bring along a witness. But this topic is not the time or place so please keep to the subject if you have anything critical to offer as other players have done.

IvyMercyLyons · 2016-10-15 00:30:51

i can't add specific information, but isn't there a multiplier based on the angle of impact?

bud · 2016-10-15 01:09:00

Yes. http://bfmods.com/mdt/scripting/ObjectT … leMod.html

Sepp · 2016-10-16 01:21:22

Angle of impact is important - a glancing shot produces less damage. Most tankers still know to present a head on hull first target. The glancing shot can be teased out of an enemy by a "shimmy". However, this is a very unpredictable situation. The armor and cannon and handling characteristics between the Tiger and M10 are however, a game physics model that is set in stone. This become apparent when both tanks are placed on an equal footing such as 1vs1 duel with no extraneous factors. Point 9) The Flank Shot. This can easily be proven by armor trials. For example every tanker wishes to make the straightest profile flank shot to tracks/side, and this produces the one shot kill on light tanks for the M10, but not the Tiger.

Last edited by Anonymouse (2016-10-16 01:24:52)

bud · 2016-10-16 01:45:06

Couldnt find any pics to illustrate, but there is a "invisible tent or bubble" around every vehicle object, if a projectile enters that bubble the server use it to know the angle from there to where it hits the vehicle. It seems that if a server is under heavy load, sometimes it skips this calculation and just mark it 1 (full impact). Once i had to reboot the whole thing to get it back to normal again.

Anyway sorry for butting in, just wanted to tell about the tent

Melfius I · 2016-10-16 01:52:28

interesting

simon · 2016-10-16 08:35:09

1) Tiger has slightly more armor than M10. }
2) M10 has slightly more cannon power than Tiger. } agreed.
3) 1 cancels 2 out so a fair trade off. }

"4) Against lights (Sherman Panzer III) the Tiger has to hit the light in the hull 3 times to kill. M10 needs to hit the hull of the light 2 times to kill. This is a big advantage for the M10 when shot reload times for both Tiger and M10 are the same. When considering the distance that can be closed by an enemy light over 4 seconds (Tiger and M10 shot reload time) it means the light driver gets to close the distance on the enemy Tiger and a much better chance of a bail and mine or ex pack. Advantage M10."

- partly agreed. you are forgetting that the M10 can be taken out with only 2 correct shots from a light, while the tiger needs at least 3 from a light. bailing and other similar antics is not a valid argument. so, that compensates.

"5) The Tiger's cannon yields slightly less splash damage than the M10. This is another bonus for the M10 for obvious reasons. Firstly it means in a heavy duel that the M10 can kill of blow the Tiger driver away from their tank easier when a repair is being performed outside of the tank. Advantage M10."

- disagreed. the m10's cannon has way less splash damage. to test it, shoot near the feet of an infantry with the m10's cannon and with the tiger's cannon. tiger's cannon blows them up in the air and when they fall down they die. with the m10 however, they never fly high enough to die when hitting the ground.

"6) Tiger tracks are twice as wide as M10 tracks, making for a smaller target area to aim at on the M10. Advantage M10."

- disagreed. the tiger's tracks only appear to be larger, when in fact they are almost the same size as M10's. in many cases a shot to the tiger's tracks ends up flying through them, or being a ''bug hit''. that makes producing a correct hit on the tiger's tracks way more difficult.

"7) Recoil. This is something I am not exactly sure of, but it seems the Tiger has a more pronounced recoil physics than the Tiger."

- invalid argument.

"8) Pad sitting. This is a very important area because an enemy light on a pad can still be made to burn with 2 shots to the hull from an M10. But a Tiger needs 3 shots at the hull to produce the same effect. When factoring in the shot reload time for the heavies (4 seconds) this is advantage M10."

- partly agreed. see my explanation on point 4.

"9) Flank shots. An M10 can make a light burn with a single shot to the flank or side of tracks. A Tiger takes two shots to kill an enemy light with a hit to the same area. Advantage M10."

- agreed.

"
10) Repair. As the Tiger has slightly more armor than the M10 it means the M10 takes less time to repair to full strength than the Tiger. Important when shot reload times are factored. Advantage M10."

- agreed.

it all depends on who is driving the tank and how they are using the tank's advantages. in 70% of cases i can take out the tiger with the sherman, and about 80% i can take out the m10 with the p4. simply, because the game is dead and so are the brains of current players in bf42. also, the forum has become a toilet wall of politics, off topic menace and randoms spawning from the air, making admin applications. sad

Whoopz · 2016-10-23 23:30:05

You finally get a chance to prove yourself Sepp https://www.bf-league.eu/index.php?opti … Itemid=107

Sepp · 2016-10-24 23:57:48

They'll probably shit themselves when my application gets through.

co0nic · 2016-10-25 00:41:30

Sepp wrote:

They'll probably shit themselves when my application gets through.

zZzZ... boring guy. you're afraid because there you can't only take tiger on axe side at aberdeen summary its too easy

Sepp · 2016-10-25 00:52:44

Coonic, clearly you have not read my thesis which is the subject of this post. If you had you'd realise that the M10 is superior in nearly every way. And no, I'm not afraid. I'm Fear Incorporated. Players like you are hill sitting long range cowards. I love those kind. There is a special pleasure in closing them down.

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#1 2016-10-14 02:00:15

Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#2 2016-10-14 02:07:25

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#3 2016-10-14 02:30:37

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#4 2016-10-14 02:32:16

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#5 2016-10-14 02:33:08

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#6 2016-10-14 02:36:02

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#7 2016-10-14 02:38:37

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#8 2016-10-14 02:42:19

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#9 2016-10-14 02:46:18

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#10 2016-10-14 02:48:21

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#11 2016-10-14 02:52:34

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#12 2016-10-14 02:56:53

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#13 2016-10-14 03:00:03

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#14 2016-10-14 05:30:49

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#15 2016-10-14 07:08:54

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#16 2016-10-14 09:55:41

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#17 2016-10-14 10:33:45

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#18 2016-10-14 20:14:45

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#19 2016-10-15 00:30:51

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#20 2016-10-15 01:09:00

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#21 2016-10-16 01:21:22

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#22 2016-10-16 01:45:06

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#23 2016-10-16 01:52:28

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#24 2016-10-16 08:35:09

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#25 2016-10-23 23:30:05

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#26 2016-10-24 23:57:48

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#27 2016-10-25 00:41:30

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

#28 2016-10-25 00:52:44

Re: Tank vs Tank Tiger vs M10

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