Request by Sam-I-Am to be reinstated for game play

T.G · 2014-10-04 20:35:51

Why people always put words in my mouth? Did i say its ok? No, its a different subject, I'm talking right now about the fact he compered The Arab Israeli conflict to the holocaust. If you compere the 2 different situations then please answer my questions above.

Hemnes · 2014-10-04 20:38:22

Trolls are walking around

Winston Smith · 2014-10-05 10:19:16

nämeless wrote:

Winston Smith wrote:
Hi, I'm new to this forum and I seldom comment when I'm not drunk. Tonight I am drunk enough to want to add to this discussion.
Firstly, I wonder if perhaps a new thread should not be opened, this is, after all, a thread started by a player protesting a ban for the use of the word "cheat". It is, perhaps, a shame that every new post bears his/her name at the banner.
Secondly, from primary school until beyond university, I grew up accepting the holocaust as a historical fact. I never questioned it as being a historical fact, and that was wrong.
We should always questions facts, that is, scientifically speaking, what makes a theory a fact.
The Western doctrine, the narrative that I have believed as a citizen schooled since childhood in the Western verse, has always downplayed and/or justified the morally dubious and the atrocious acts that have been committed in order to safeguard and sustain our world system - that is the Western world, not the world as a whole. Be that the concentration of Boers in camps or the bombing of Axis cities during the war. I have always believed, because of my education, through the state educational apparatus and the media as a whole, including popular culture, that we only do evil things for the greater good.
That being said, I did spend many years researching the history of my kind and that of the enemies we faced. I studied historiography and through that study I poured skepticism upon all my held beliefs but ultimately they stood true, at least to me. It could be, however, that my resources were flawed.
Following this thread I decided to, once again, question my held beliefs and look into another side of this story to see if, perhaps, my beliefs could be swayed. I spent a good two hours tonight reading through texts and watching documentaries that claim to provide proof of a "Holohoax". My conclusions, after a very brief study - two hours is nowhere near enough time to research something like this - is that the documentation and documentaries I saw are severely lacking in historiographical credibility. They are rife with bold assumptions, incredulous speculation, and are generally lacking in decent citation.
My ultimate conclusion, at this point, is that I am not willing to shake my held beliefs. However, if credible evidence is presented I will pay it consideration.
It all reminds me of the Ancient Aliens series, so much speculation, so little evidence.
Oh, and by the way, @ (BB)DinkW who said this:
(BB)DinkW wrote:
Funny I thought it was Allied V Axis ?
You must have a different updated copy of the game than mine that refers to Allied V Nazis and Allied V Japs
Wait a minute EA would not be so stupid as to release a game that went against European law would they?
You are right, I made a mistake by saying "Nazi" instead of "Axis", I appreciated the sarcastic way you pointed that out.
WS
As far as I remember, you are from the U. S. and since you like to learn history, I have got a question. I would like to know how does the official U. S. propaganda, that no doubt has very hard influence on the educational system, affect on the historical literature, including textbooks for schoolchildren and students. I spent my school years in 90s reading textbooks written in the Soviet Union in 80s and it may be assumed these textbooks were written under influence of the committee of censorship which has to decide whether the schoolchildren are able to know some historical facts or not. Also, some facts were a bit distorted to form the "proper" perception from reading. Some time later, I already learned history in the university and I was a little bit more open to the other sources like the other modern textbooks, lectures, Internet etc. In spite of this, I still even think that Soviet textbooks weren't really that biased at all, excepting some details. Once I decided to read a history textbook written for U. S. schoolchildren and the page about WWII really frustrated me a lot because of the role of USSR in WWII and the "red terror" of the Soviet regime. For example, I learned that over 40 millions Ukrainians were killed in GULAG, despite the fact that population of Ukraine those days was lower than 40 millions people. It was really ridiculous to read like it's ridiculous nowadays for me to read some Western media when they type something about the freedom in the country I live in. Back to "bloody regime". I decided to know what the Soviet propaganda type about the concentration camps in U. S. and I understood I don't remember that I ever learned something like that in school or university. Hence, I have got a question. Do you U. S. people learn something in school about internment of Japanese Americans during the days of WWII? I know you learn a lot about segregation, the rights of blacks, quote M. L. King etc, but I would like to know what you learn about internment. Just asking...

Hi Nameless, Actually I'm not from the USA but it seems that someone who is from the US has already answered your question. I think you're right to call school taught history 'propaganda', regardless of what country it's taught in. In some countries it's outright propaganda and in others it's subtle, but I think the bias and desire to paint a positive/less negative picture is always there. I guess we went to school at the same time, but I in New Zealand. The history that was taught to us touched on world history but didn't go too deeply into any issues, apart from the New Zealand history modules. We only delved into "real" history in senior high school, but by then it was an elective subject that only around 10% of my year took. In 6th form history we looked at the "Road to Sarajevo", from the Franco-Prussian war of 1871(?) and the unification of Germany and Italy, the rise of Gemany as a European power and the dreadnaught arms race with Great Britain, through to the outbreak of the first world war. Then we moved on to Tsarist Russia, the rise of the Bolsheviks, Ruso-Japanese war, Lenin and the revolution. After that we looked at the interwar period, hyperinflation in Germany and the rise of Hitler, fascism and the Nazis. Then we shot over to China and studied the fall of the dynasties and the rise of Sun Yat Sen, and finally we looked at Rogernomics and the new right revolution of the 4th Labour government in New Zealand. In 7th form we spent three quarters of the year studying Tudor/Stuart England and then some very local history where we literally studied a nearby sheep farm.

So, history taught in New Zealand covers many topics but its goal is to teach history as a subject, rather than teaching history of places as fact. Our textbooks certainly had a bias towards the standard, pro-empire narrative, but we were encouraged to analyse the backgrounds and political leanings of the historians whose books we read. However, this was only in senior high school, in a class in which 90% of the students did not take.

WS

Winston Smith · 2014-10-05 10:38:05

Last night I watched the mighty All Blacks lose.
This has me now questioning all of my beliefs.
Is up still up? Is down still down?
Did the holocaust happen as I thought?

samiam · 2014-10-05 17:16:49

In the first book we learn that man has been saddled with being fallible. Then we get a hint of things to come by one brother killing another brother by cracking his gourd. Whether it actually happened or is a parable, is unimportant... It forewarns us that man has the capability and will commit atrocities against his fellow man while we inhabit this earth. And with the power of the magnificent brain, which aids in our ability to have free will...man has engineered and carried out the most horrific ways to commit death and destruction upon his fellow man since the first sin. And he is not through. So whether it was 4 jews or 14 million, does it really matter? Over 50 million people died during that war. Why is there a need to point fingers and have your belief trump anothers. Blame, political beliefs, religion, will not bring 50M lives back, nor will it heal the wounds of the family members that were victimized by mans will to commit evil and regrettable acts. Take the time to understand why and do what you can to propagate peace and love.

nämeless · 2014-10-05 22:39:41

Winston Smith wrote:

nämeless wrote:
Winston Smith wrote:
Hi, I'm new to this forum and I seldom comment when I'm not drunk. Tonight I am drunk enough to want to add to this discussion.
Firstly, I wonder if perhaps a new thread should not be opened, this is, after all, a thread started by a player protesting a ban for the use of the word "cheat". It is, perhaps, a shame that every new post bears his/her name at the banner.
Secondly, from primary school until beyond university, I grew up accepting the holocaust as a historical fact. I never questioned it as being a historical fact, and that was wrong.
We should always questions facts, that is, scientifically speaking, what makes a theory a fact.
The Western doctrine, the narrative that I have believed as a citizen schooled since childhood in the Western verse, has always downplayed and/or justified the morally dubious and the atrocious acts that have been committed in order to safeguard and sustain our world system - that is the Western world, not the world as a whole. Be that the concentration of Boers in camps or the bombing of Axis cities during the war. I have always believed, because of my education, through the state educational apparatus and the media as a whole, including popular culture, that we only do evil things for the greater good.
That being said, I did spend many years researching the history of my kind and that of the enemies we faced. I studied historiography and through that study I poured skepticism upon all my held beliefs but ultimately they stood true, at least to me. It could be, however, that my resources were flawed.
Following this thread I decided to, once again, question my held beliefs and look into another side of this story to see if, perhaps, my beliefs could be swayed. I spent a good two hours tonight reading through texts and watching documentaries that claim to provide proof of a "Holohoax". My conclusions, after a very brief study - two hours is nowhere near enough time to research something like this - is that the documentation and documentaries I saw are severely lacking in historiographical credibility. They are rife with bold assumptions, incredulous speculation, and are generally lacking in decent citation.
My ultimate conclusion, at this point, is that I am not willing to shake my held beliefs. However, if credible evidence is presented I will pay it consideration.
It all reminds me of the Ancient Aliens series, so much speculation, so little evidence.
Oh, and by the way, @ (BB)DinkW who said this:

You are right, I made a mistake by saying "Nazi" instead of "Axis", I appreciated the sarcastic way you pointed that out.
WS
As far as I remember, you are from the U. S. and since you like to learn history, I have got a question. I would like to know how does the official U. S. propaganda, that no doubt has very hard influence on the educational system, affect on the historical literature, including textbooks for schoolchildren and students. I spent my school years in 90s reading textbooks written in the Soviet Union in 80s and it may be assumed these textbooks were written under influence of the committee of censorship which has to decide whether the schoolchildren are able to know some historical facts or not. Also, some facts were a bit distorted to form the "proper" perception from reading. Some time later, I already learned history in the university and I was a little bit more open to the other sources like the other modern textbooks, lectures, Internet etc. In spite of this, I still even think that Soviet textbooks weren't really that biased at all, excepting some details. Once I decided to read a history textbook written for U. S. schoolchildren and the page about WWII really frustrated me a lot because of the role of USSR in WWII and the "red terror" of the Soviet regime. For example, I learned that over 40 millions Ukrainians were killed in GULAG, despite the fact that population of Ukraine those days was lower than 40 millions people. It was really ridiculous to read like it's ridiculous nowadays for me to read some Western media when they type something about the freedom in the country I live in. Back to "bloody regime". I decided to know what the Soviet propaganda type about the concentration camps in U. S. and I understood I don't remember that I ever learned something like that in school or university. Hence, I have got a question. Do you U. S. people learn something in school about internment of Japanese Americans during the days of WWII? I know you learn a lot about segregation, the rights of blacks, quote M. L. King etc, but I would like to know what you learn about internment. Just asking...

Hi Nameless, Actually I'm not from the USA but it seems that someone who is from the US has already answered your question. I think you're right to call school taught history 'propaganda', regardless of what country it's taught in. In some countries it's outright propaganda and in others it's subtle, but I think the bias and desire to paint a positive/less negative picture is always there. I guess we went to school at the same time, but I in New Zealand. The history that was taught to us touched on world history but didn't go too deeply into any issues, apart from the New Zealand history modules. We only delved into "real" history in senior high school, but by then it was an elective subject that only around 10% of my year took. In 6th form history we looked at the "Road to Sarajevo", from the Franco-Prussian war of 1871(?) and the unification of Germany and Italy, the rise of Gemany as a European power and the dreadnaught arms race with Great Britain, through to the outbreak of the first world war. Then we moved on to Tsarist Russia, the rise of the Bolsheviks, Ruso-Japanese war, Lenin and the revolution. After that we looked at the interwar period, hyperinflation in Germany and the rise of Hitler, fascism and the Nazis. Then we shot over to China and studied the fall of the dynasties and the rise of Sun Yat Sen, and finally we looked at Rogernomics and the new right revolution of the 4th Labour government in New Zealand. In 7th form we spent three quarters of the year studying Tudor/Stuart England and then some very local history where we literally studied a nearby sheep farm.
So, history taught in New Zealand covers many topics but its goal is to teach history as a subject, rather than teaching history of places as fact. Our textbooks certainly had a bias towards the standard, pro-empire narrative, but we were encouraged to analyse the backgrounds and political leanings of the historians whose books we read. However, this was only in senior high school, in a class in which 90% of the students did not take.
WS

Thanks. The English dialects in text are so alike I could never tell which is which, so I thought you are from the United States.

Last edited by nämeless (2014-10-05 22:40:31)

Gwent · 2014-10-06 19:41:45

Why do some people put up posts that are as long winded, tedious and baffling as the Old Testament? And most of these bellows could get their points across in 20 words. It's like Sleven on this forum. Boring and self impressed is what it is

Gwent · 2014-10-06 19:45:30

samiam wrote:

In the first book we learn that man has been saddled with being fallible. Then we get a hint of things to come by one brother killing another brother by cracking his gourd. Whether it actually happened or is a parable, is unimportant... It forewarns us that man has the capability and will commit atrocities against his fellow man while we inhabit this earth. And with the power of the magnificent brain, which aids in our ability to have free will...man has engineered and carried out the most horrific ways to commit death and destruction upon his fellow man since the first sin. And he is not through. So whether it was 4 jews or 14 million, does it really matter? Over 50 million people died during that war. Why is there a need to point fingers and have your belief trump anothers. Blame, political beliefs, religion, will not bring 50M lives back, nor will it heal the wounds of the family members that were victimized by mans will to commit evil and regrettable acts. Take the time to understand why and do what you can to propagate peace and love.

These yankee doodles that post on here are parochial

Gwent · 2014-10-06 19:47:14

And I don't hate America. It's the 2nd greatest nation on earth.

nämeless · 2014-10-07 16:48:23

What is the first one? Scottish?

Gwent · 2014-10-07 19:35:07

nameless, you're a russian tool…………

Gwent · 2014-10-07 19:36:05

nameless: What language do americans speak?

nämeless · 2014-10-07 21:53:55

Depends on the country and its region I guess: Brazilians speak Portuguese, Argentinians speak Spanish, Canadians from Quebec speak French. It doesn't matter at all. What really does is the fact that you are trying to categorise the nations by greatness. It's not a fucking sorting SQL query and it was really funny. I made a stupid assumption about Scotland with reference to the last English care and love to this country. I did it to know how adequate you are because I was interested in your reaction to this provocative question. Don't get me wrong but your comments on this forum are strange a bit. Hence, I have got the answer now. Thanks.

Syndrum² · 2014-10-08 01:40:50

Gwent wrote:

nameless: What language do americans speak?

spanish

George · 2014-10-08 02:01:42

lol syndrum, que ?

janet reno (TX) · 2014-10-08 17:57:07

TOUCHÉ

Syndrum² · 2014-10-08 22:01:24

Qué está pasando?

Maasika · 2014-10-10 17:21:42

Gwent wrote:

nameless: What language do americans speak?

Pick and choose

http://www.native-languages.org/languages.htm

Lecter · 2014-10-10 18:54:07

ai caramba!

Gwent · 2014-10-10 19:40:53

Full blown retards above

nämeless · 2014-10-10 19:50:01

Blown retards? I realise that England as a country spawned the language but nobody seems to speak it there.

Gwent · 2014-10-10 19:59:28

What are your little fat fingers thumping out on your ’special person’ adapted keyboard now. Funny little man. I enjoy reading what you posted tho; a bit like when an orangutan licks its own poo. Goodwin for you you big clever russian boy

nämeless · 2014-10-10 20:25:52

I don't understand: am I a little man with fat little fingers or a big and clever Russian boy? I also can't stand comparison with orangutan.

Sunshine · 2014-10-10 20:40:04

I don't think USA even has an official language. Some individual states made it there official though.

More importantly... what is this "special person adapted keyboard?" It sounds awesome.

Gwent · 2014-10-11 19:10:29

nameless......I shouldn’t even waste my time addressing such stupidity, but to answer your question, you can pretend to be a big clever boy. stupidity at its finest from another russian

Gwent · 2014-10-11 19:12:15

nameless
And I don’t despise you hun. Don’t take it so personal. This forum ain’t all about you, unless you are tuia by another name

Gwent · 2014-10-11 19:14:13

Americans speak ENGLISH! Ffs. I despair

Gwent · 2014-10-11 19:15:16

I’ll have all my teeth pulled out please

nämeless · 2014-10-11 22:18:41

Gwent wrote:

I don’t despise you hun.

I think Joint would like to try what you smoke.

Gwent · 2014-10-13 19:29:46

As usual stupid faeces posted. Any sphincter should be able to see we English are the best. And spare me the juvenile anti-american, anti-anglo BS

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