Ukraine demonstrations

dary · 2014-08-09 13:36:33

nämeless wrote:

Hemnes wrote:
What is EU? Would you die for it? Is it important for you?
Not for EU, but trust me, a real German would kill you for a bottle of good beer with bratwurst. Even a vegan.

For a Sojawurst. hehe

nämeless · 2014-08-09 13:39:14

Kobra wrote:

You say that they are at the border, but if they would like to cross it at a territory of seperatist who would stop/control or even recognize it?

I think nobody would stop or control them. It's quite obvious that Eastern Ukrainian border is pure nonsense these days: refugees are leaving Ukraine to get help in Russia, some small groups of separatists coming to Ukraine from Russia or from somewhere else through this border but they have nothing to do with the regular Russian army and I think that today's Ukraine existence and independence is the best proof that the regular army didn't cross the border yet.

It seems this Patton lives inside his wet dreams about democracy and other shite. By the way, did you read the article about Politkovskaja in Wikipedia?

Last edited by nämeless (2014-08-09 13:41:56)

Kobra · 2014-08-09 13:43:07

Well it's not about overtaking Ukraine as itself and even these small groups can have a dramatical effect, thinking about MH17 for example.

Hemnes · 2014-08-09 13:43:40

George S. Patton wrote:

In that case the would be violating international law. No one can just military intervene into another country without the permission of the legal gevornment of the country in case.

Legal president is Viktor Yanukovich.

Hemnes · 2014-08-09 13:45:10

Kobra wrote:

Well it's not about overtaking Ukraine as itself and even these small groups can have a dramatical effect, thinking about MH17 for example.

Malaysian experts told that MH17 was destroyed by fighter Su-25.

Last edited by Hemnes (2014-08-09 13:45:45)

George S. Patton · 2014-08-09 13:53:40

Do I say so?
Dont campare them with this.
Im talking about the soldiers the Netherlands could have send.
They were alowed to do so because the had the permission of the Ukranian government.
So please stop talking shit!

Hemnes · 2014-08-09 13:58:26

George S. Patton wrote:

Im talking about the soldiers the Netherlands could have send.
They were alowed to do so because the had the permission of the Ukranian government.
So please stop talking shit!

Dutch soldiers don't want to go to Ukraine. They told "there are too dangerous".

Kobra · 2014-08-09 13:58:30

Hemnes wrote:

Kobra wrote:
Well it's not about overtaking Ukraine as itself and even these small groups can have a dramatical effect, thinking about MH17 for example.
Malaysian experts told that MH17 was destroyed by fighter Su-25.

Well, this hasn't shown up in the "western media" and sounds really far-fetched.

Hemnes · 2014-08-09 13:59:52

Kobra wrote:

Hemnes wrote:
Kobra wrote:
Well it's not about overtaking Ukraine as itself and even these small groups can have a dramatical effect, thinking about MH17 for example.
Malaysian experts told that MH17 was destroyed by fighter Su-25.
Well, this hasn't shown up in the "western media" and sounds really far-fetched.

Use a Google.

nämeless · 2014-08-09 13:59:54

Kobra wrote:

Well it's not about overtaking Ukraine as itself and even these small groups can have a dramatical effect, thinking about MH17 for example.

I agree. I watch video reports from Eastern Ukrainians who just film everything around them with their mobile phone cameras and I can admit that it's not only Ukrainians who fight for separatists. As a native speaker, I feel the difference in accents and their stylistics of speech. In my opinion made by observation, there are about 85% of citizens of Ukraine there, the others 15% are people from the other countries. They might be Russians or Ukrainians with Russian citizenship, I also saw Ossetians, Serbians etc. I can assume that these separatists could shot this plane down but it's unlikely because Buk is a very difficult vehicle for them. Actually, it's not only one vehicle. It's a group of vehicles that should coordinate their work to hit a target. You can read about it in Wikipedia.
Politically, it's very difficult situation and it couldn't be solved with a military invasion now because the Federal Council of Russian Federation didn't permit Putin to invade Ukraine and it's prohibited now, but it could be possible in the future and invasion is also possible I guess. There should be a reason for this like something much more horrible than what is going on in Ukraine now.

Hemnes wrote:

Kobra wrote:
Well it's not about overtaking Ukraine as itself and even these small groups can have a dramatical effect, thinking about MH17 for example.
Malaysian experts told that MH17 was destroyed by fighter Su-25.

It's just a guess-work because they found holes from SU-25 machine-gun at MH17 wreckages. Who knows if this true or not, it's just written in the Malaysian media.

Last edited by nämeless (2014-08-09 14:31:31)

George S. Patton · 2014-08-09 14:03:16

nämeless wrote:

I think nobody would stop or control them. It's quite obvious that Eastern Ukrainian border is pure nonsense these days: refugees are leaving Ukraine to get help in Russia, some small groups of separatists coming to Ukraine from Russia or from somewhere else through this border but they have nothing to do with the regular Russian army and I think that today's Ukraine existence and independence is the best proof that the regular army didn't cross the border yet.
It seems this Patton lives inside his wet dreams about democracy and other shite. By the way, did you read the article about Politkovskaja in Wikipedia?

How on earth can get those sepratist their hands on a BUK system if the Russian army isn't backing them up?
I dont have wet dreams about democracy or anything like it. I just compare the acts of Putin with the international treaties he signed himself. He breaks his own words.
And I just hate people who breaks there word!

Hemnes wrote:

Legal president is Viktor Yanukovich.

And Stalin was also legal president, or not?

Hemnes · 2014-08-09 14:06:16

George S. Patton wrote:

And Stalin was also legal president, or not?

He wasn't a president.

Kobra · 2014-08-09 14:11:34

Exactly, I also don't believe that anybody can handle a Buk system.

nämeless · 2014-08-09 14:16:48

George S. Patton wrote:

How on earth can get those sepratist their hands on a BUK system if the Russian army isn't backing them up?
I dont have wet dreams about democracy or anything like it. I just compare the acts of Putin with the international treaties he signed himself. He breaks his own words.
And I just hate people who breaks there word!

What acts of Putin? What do you mean?

Share a vehicle like Buk with them is dangerous like to share a grenade with a monkey. For example, what if they will get this Buk to shoot a plane full or Russian tourists from Turkey? It's unbelievable. But I still believe in at least three possible versions:

1. Ukrainian army SU-25 shot MH17
2. Separatists stole Ukrainian Buk and shot MH17
3. Ukrainian army shot MH17 from Buk

http://www.picshare.ru/uploads/140809/hioch7Ks6N.jpg

George S. Patton · 2014-08-09 14:43:56

nämeless wrote:

George S. Patton wrote:
How on earth can get those sepratist their hands on a BUK system if the Russian army isn't backing them up?
I dont have wet dreams about democracy or anything like it. I just compare the acts of Putin with the international treaties he signed himself. He breaks his own words.
And I just hate people who breaks there word!
What acts of Putin? What do you mean?
Share a vehicle like Buk with them is dangerous like to share a grenade with a monkey. For example, what if they will get this Buk to shoot a plane full or Russian tourists from Turkey? It's unbelievable. But I still believe in at least three possible versions:
1. Ukrainian army SU-25 shot MH17
2. Separatists stole Ukrainian Buk and shot MH17
3. Ukrainian army shot MH17 from Buk
http://www.picshare.ru/uploads/140809/hioch7Ks6N.jpg

He promised to do everything thats was in its power to secure the crash site.
He didn't do anything! The so called prime minister of Donestk is his vassal! A Russian citizen and ex- KGB/FSB agent.

And why did that guy proudly says on a social network his forces have taken down a Ukranian An-26.
The post was immidiatly deleted after it gor known it was MH17.

There is proof(pictures and photo's of a BUK system going back into Russia from the area where MH17 was shit down.
One rocket was missing!

Wat purpose would the Ukranian army have by shooting down an airplane.
They never did before in the whole conflict.

Please get your winkers of my friend.

nämeless · 2014-08-09 15:02:20

George S. Patton wrote:

He promised to do everything thats was in its power to secure the crash site.
He didn't do anything! The so called prime minister of Donestk is his vassal! A Russian citizen and ex- KGB/FSB agent.
And why did that guy proudly says on a social network his forces have taken down a Ukranian An-26.
The post was immidiatly deleted after it gor known it was MH17.
There is proof(pictures and photo's of a BUK system going back into Russia from the area where MH17 was shit down.
One rocket was missing!
Wat purpose would the Ukranian army have by shooting down an airplane.
They never did before in the whole conflict.
Please get your winkers of my friend.

1. Putin can't control the East of Ukraine because it's another country.
2. The minister of foreign affairs and other Russian officials asked the Ukrainian side to cease fire. You can find it on YouTube.
3. The prime minister of so-called "Donetsk people's republic" was Borodaj, he is not a KGB/FSB agent and he is not a "vassal". Read the Wikipedia article about his biography.
4. Ukrainian army uses An-26 and the other planes. There were a lot of planes that separatists shot down and they still shooting planes now.
5. The photo of a Buk was a screenshot taken from the video made some time earlier in the another location and it was a fake by Ukrainian security service. You can find the proof in the comments of this thread.
6. Once Ukrainian army already shot a civil plane down in 2001 by mistake.

George S. Patton · 2014-08-09 16:17:54

As i said before my friend. Please get your winkers off.
Look at the facts. And lets wait until the investigation is done.

joint · 2014-08-09 16:46:00

Patton, how it feels like, to live there, deep -deep in the free world with unbiased media and with no winkers? lol

Vojislav · 2014-08-09 17:23:07

George S. Patton wrote:

Wat purpose would the Ukranian army have by shooting down an airplane.

Russia gets new set of sanctions. West get reason to blame russia and show whole world whos bad guy in this conflict, in the future days/weeks/months gives nato good set of excuse for getting closer to russian borders and rocket bases near russia. Need more ?

George S. Patton · 2014-08-09 17:31:43

You dont even know where i live.
But now you ask, it feels great!

Ukrain hasn't even part at NATO.
And theu are the first who feel the consequences of those sanctions.
The got no more gas.
So they dont had or have any reason to shot down a plane.

s[sk] · 2014-08-09 17:39:03

nämeless wrote:

5. The photo of a Buk was a screenshot taken from the video made some time earlier in the another location and it was a fake by Ukrainian security service. You can find the proof in the comments of this thread.

and then there was a counterproof that it was in lugansk
you have to choose which one you believe

6. Once Ukrainian army already shot a civil plane down in 2001 by mistake.

However, Washington quickly attempted to quash speculation of a new terrorist attack. Unnamed US officials claimed that the aircraft was brought down by a long-range air defence missile fired during exercises by Ukrainian armed forces.
...
The Kremlin backed the theory that the plane could have been brought down by sabotage. Russian officials said that the accusation against the Ukrainian military was "unworthy of attention".
President Putin ruled out the idea that the airliner could have been shot down by the Ukrainian military. Speaking at a news conference in the Kremlin, he did not rule out terrorism.
But he stressed that the cause of the crash was not known and he appealed to the media not to be sensational. He said: "It is true that in the immediate vicinity of the area where the crash took place some exercises were being conducted."
"But the weapons used in those exercises had such characteristics that make it impossible for them to reach the air corridor through which the plane was moving." He said that although the Russian military did not take part in the exercises, they had observers on the ground.

joint · 2014-08-09 17:56:12

George S. Patton wrote:

You dont even know where i live.
But now you ask, it feels great!
Ukrain hasn't even part at NATO.
And theu are the first who feel the consequences of those sanctions.
The got no more gas.
So they dont had or have any reason to shot down a plane.

where are you from?lol
sorry cant understand who are 'they?' and who had no reason to shot a plane, what gas? do we dispute already?

George S. Patton · 2014-08-09 18:11:20

It doesn't matter where im from.
With they I referred to the Ukrainian people.
And with gas I ment the natural gas.
Ukrain buys a lot of that gas from Russia.
They're dependent on that gas.
So they feel the consequences of this sanctions at first and the hardest.

dary · 2014-08-09 18:59:23

Der Irrweg des Westens (Ложный путь Запада)

Sorry, it is only in German. Very good newspaper... critical and not always pro west.

http://www.handelsblatt.com/meinung/kom … 08844.html

Hemnes · 2014-08-09 19:00:31

mccrank wrote:

Der Irrweg des Westens (Ложный путь Запада)
Sorry, it is only in German. Very good newspaper... critical and not always pro west.
http://www.handelsblatt.com/meinung/kom … 08844.html

What you think about "Bild" ?

joint · 2014-08-09 20:30:40

George S. Patton wrote:

It doesn't matter where im from.
With they I referred to the Ukrainian people.
And with gas I ment the natural gas.
Ukrain buys a lot of that gas from Russia.
They're dependent on that gas.
So they feel the consequences of this sanctions at first and the hardest.

how do you think who had reasons to crush the plane, or supposing that the plane was shot down accidentaly, who actualy have profit of this tragedy, who kindles hate among people and requires sanctions? is it putin indeed?

why wont you tell where are you living, is that a matter for you?

Last edited by joint (2014-08-09 20:33:31)

George S. Patton · 2014-08-10 00:18:52

A lady from my neighbourhood was in that plane, same as a lot of other countryman of mine. The account is now 196.

I've seen the grieve it brings to people....

In my opinion those separatists have shot down the plan accidently. Most of the evidence point that way. Even Putin says so.
But if that is true, Putin is also responsible. He is the one who gave them the BUK system.
And I dont hate the Russians whatsoever. But I hate the 'game' their president is playing.
He has nothing to do with the conflict in Ukrain.
And if there are refugees going over the border he should help them. They're refugees.
But he shouldn't arm those separatists!

-=Privet=- · 2014-08-10 08:12:09

http://rt.com/op-edge/160168-imagine-ru … standards/

dary · 2014-08-10 10:49:24

Hemnes wrote:

mccrank wrote:
Der Irrweg des Westens (Ложный путь Запада)
Sorry, it is only in German. Very good newspaper... critical and not always pro west.
http://www.handelsblatt.com/meinung/kom … 08844.html
What you think about "Bild" ?

How do you know this paper? It is the biggest boulevardpaper in Germany and you can say they make the opinion's here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudi_Dutschke

Durschke was killed because BILD, also called BLÖD (silly, stupid), set the stupid reader on him and the they killed him.

Or check this photo in the next article. Putin is never smiling, he looks like a gangster. Unconsciously they influence your opinion with pictures and other tricks.

http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/flug … .bild.html

I read it sometimes just for fun but i should stop it. I just hate this paper...

Last edited by dary (2014-08-10 10:53:43)

Hemnes · 2014-08-10 10:54:42

mccrank wrote:

How do you know this paper? It is the biggest boulevardpaper in Germany and many Germans and they make the opinions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudi_Dutschke
Durschke was killed because BILD, also called BLÖD (silly, stupid), set the stupid reader on him and the they killed him.
Or check this photo in the next article. Putin is never smiling, he looks like a gangster. Unconsciously they influence you opinion with pictures and other tricks.
http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/flug … .bild.html
I read it sometimes just for fun but i should stop it. I just hate this paper...

It is one of the symbols of rusophoby. RT.com often shows some articles from there.. they make me laugh and cry..
Sadly but many people believe to this paper..

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