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say

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Registered: 2013-06-25

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

idk, anyhow but not as it is now, ppl die for nothing, how about at first cease fire and involve inrernational watchers, lawers and stuff, third side, like in a democratic europian way and to let people a bit power and rights
and what you think, antiterror operation should go on?? what would be better and correctly to do, have you some solutions?

it's a bad situation that doesn't seem to have a good solution (unless those separatists would just put down their weapons and flee to russia or face trials)

didn't it all start in the pretext that those bad children-eating fascists from kiev are coming to kill everyone?
what would happen if all those armed separatists just disappeared? would civilians live in those areas be endangered by anything/anyone?

I'd ask Russia what would they do if part of their territory got occupied by paramilitary forces led by foreign citizens. I'm not sure whether they'd call OSCE.

Same shit happend in afganistan when russian army entered their borders .. nevertheless America supported afghan mujahideen in fight again soviet russia.
Boom 9/11 American Karma returned back ... hmm so Im waiting for new bunch of Ukrainian terrorist in few years .. at this time they r just little teenagers so kill em till they grow ?

Vojislav

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

Hard to say its karma, 9/11 was perfect excuse for their attack on iraq. Fake ''  mass destruction weapon '' fake iraqi terrorist who crashed planes-enough reason to burn down another country and steal their oil

say

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

Cmon CIA trained mujahideens in diverzant tactic during soviet-afghan war same shit going on with rebels at ukraina.
Cia works with western part of rebelz same like Russian supporting eastern rebels

joint

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

didn't it all start in the pretext that those bad children-eating fascists from kiev are coming to kill everyone?

not exactly, but yes, west doesnt have monopoly on the bullshit production..
it started when the constitution was violated and the seizure of power of the central government, and now fat oligarhs, new masters of Ukraine say to people who even didnt elect them, that this land belong to Ukraine, with all its coal and gas that they have already managed to sell foreign companies
why its fair when it was maidan and its not now?
how separatists can leave if most of them born here and have their families here, those with russian passports dont bother people who live there because there are all relatives, borders for politics, you cant draw border in people relation not using mass media, now those who bomb their houses are foreigners for that people, they even dont need tv now, they see how their neighbord kids dying under bombing, i dont want be biased, but its obvious who do excessive force

Last edited by joint (2014-07-26 04:17:36)

nämeless

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

Ukrainian media says separatists shoot each other in the Eastern Ukraine and kill civilians... It's Lugansk, population over 425000.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXJkfpdAHSE

s[sk]

Rival

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Registered: 2012-10-10

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

real ukrainians shoot, ukrainians who want to be russians shoot, russians that pretend to be ukrainians shoot, russians that pretend they're not shooting from russia shoot
did i miss someone?

nämeless

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

real ukrainians shoot, ukrainians who want to be russians shoot, russians that pretend to be ukrainians shoot, russians that pretend they're not shooting from russia shoot
did i miss someone?

Yes, you miss brain. Only a brainless could speak this way.

Last edited by nämeless (2014-07-28 21:57:17)

say

Member

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Registered: 2013-06-25

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

real ukrainians shoot, ukrainians who want to be russians shoot, russians that pretend to be ukrainians shoot, russians that pretend they're not shooting from russia shoot
did i miss someone?

r u drunked or something ?

s[sk]

Rival

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

i've just summarized the situation over there

Timmos

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

just nuke russia and ukraine, less vodka and less insurance claims

Vojislav

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Location: Белград

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

ein reich ein volk ein timmos

joint

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Location: Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

real ukrainians shoot, ukrainians who want to be russians shoot, russians that pretend to be ukrainians shoot, russians that pretend they're not shooting from russia shoot
did i miss someone?

this is exactly how in civilazed world most of tv news watchers represent it, maby the only you forgot is putin

s[sk]

Rival

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

putin doesn't shoot, putin plays a chess game

joint

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

and what could be his motivations? like comunism dictatature in the world, or revenge for cold war losing? maybe he dont care of international laws nor own people freedom and interests and he just play for the absolute power?

s[sk]

Rival

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

and what could be his motivations? like comunism dictatature in the world, or revenge for cold war losing? maybe he dont care of international laws nor own people freedom and interests and he just play for the absolute power?

used to think it's only about power and his dreams about great soviet union being reborn, currently i'm leaning more to the usual stuff - power + money
you need power to be able to get a nice chunk of money
to have power, you need support
he's kinda lucky that he's the head of russia - dictators in other countries need to use military against own people to keep their posts
he just needs some propaganda to show to his people how the whole world fears their great leader and they love him
he annexes crimea and what happens? his popularity at home skyrockets
yes, he needs to fix some problems with opposition here and there but throughout the years, he found a great way - they just get accused with some made up shit and either back off or get a vacation in some nice prison - no more bloody murders or polonium poisonings

his only problem is that he needs properly balance the shit he's doing to impress russians and also not go too far to not piss his oligarchs too much (those sanctions, while still imho weak are starting to bother some so he will probably find a way to back off while still looking like a great winner at least to those watching kremlin tv - and i'm sure even US government will help him with that for tactical reasons)

so yea, just an ordinary political marketing tailored for his peasants

Coco

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

How's everything ? Talking down to russians in a lofty and schoolmasterly way is very comfortable, isn't it ?

Look at the finger that you point at Putin. It's full of blood, too.

Our strategy of toppling regimes -Irak, Lybia, Ukraine- is a stupidity. Years of bloody instability and a blight upon neighbouring countries (or for those who fly over there).

s[sk]

Rival

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

How's everything ? Talking down to russians in a lofty and schoolmasterly way is very comfortable, isn't it ?

i was asked a question, i gave my opinion about the topic

Our strategy of toppling regimes -Irak, Lybia, Ukraine- is a stupidity.

i have no strategy about those regimes but i would love to hear about yours ;-)

nämeless

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

used to think it's only about power and his dreams about great soviet union being reborn

But he is not a communist.

yes, he needs to fix some problems with opposition here and there but throughout the years, he found a great way - they just get accused with some made up shit and either back off or get a vacation in some nice prison

Any facts?

like a great winner at least to those watching kremlin tv - and i'm sure even US government will help him with that for tactical reasons)

so yea, just an ordinary political marketing tailored for his peasants

Tell me, why do the "peasants" like me watch this "Kremlin TV" and nobody ban European TV and websites here? Why I am able to watch Euronews, BBC and other TV-channels?

Last edited by nämeless (2014-07-29 13:49:28)

s[sk]

Rival

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Registered: 2012-10-10

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

yes, he needs to fix some problems with opposition here and there but throughout the years, he found a great way - they just get accused with some made up shit and either back off or get a vacation in some nice prison

Any facts?

i'm sure you won't believe me i have hard time remembering all those russian names i read about (i currently remember only giants like Putin, Lavrov and Dzhigurda) but let's say Navalny?
he's fine until the moment he runs starts organizing some demonstrations and suddenly he's being accused of stealing wood, robbery, frauds, you name it
funny thing was that he got sentenced to don't remember how many years in prison and then they suddenly changed their minds and released him? a convicted criminal?

s[sk]

Rival

Reputation: +11

Registered: 2012-10-10

Posts: 1,227

Re: Ukraine demonstrations

used to think it's only about power and his dreams about great soviet union being reborn

But he is not a communist.

and?

nämeless

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

yes, he needs to fix some problems with opposition here and there but throughout the years, he found a great way - they just get accused with some made up shit and either back off or get a vacation in some nice prison

Any facts?

i'm sure you won't believe me i have hard time remembering all those russian names i read about (i currently remember only giants like Putin, Lavrov and Dzhigurda) but let's say Navalny?
he's fine until the moment he runs starts organizing some demonstrations and suddenly he's being accused of stealing wood, robbery, frauds, you name it
funny thing was that he got sentenced to don't remember how many years in prison and then they suddenly changed their minds and released him? a convicted criminal?

Navalny? As far as I remember, he is not imprisoned.

The committee stated that he had conspired to steal timber from KirovLes, a state-owned company in Kirov Oblast in 2009, while acting as an adviser to Kirov's governor Nikita Belykh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny

In 2009, he was just a local official, he had nothing to do with opposition.

P. S. Joint, could you please say something about Dzhgurda? I have no words to explain who this person is.

Last edited by nämeless (2014-07-29 13:57:18)

s[sk]

Rival

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

Navalny? As far as I remember, he is not imprisoned.

that's what i said, i remember him being sentenced to prison and suddenly released and everyone was like wtf
i've look it up, prosecutor who got what he wanted (prison sentence for him) suddenly appealed to the sentence he originally asked

you might have more insider info than me, no idea why that happened, did they decide they got what they wanted? or did he back off and cut a secret deal?

The committee stated that he had conspired to steal timber from KirovLes, a state-owned company in Kirov Oblast in 2009, while acting as an adviser to Kirov's governor Nikita Belykh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny
In 2009, he was just a local official, he had nothing to do with opposition.

and that's why his legal problems started only when he started to be a "trouble"

P. S. Joint, could you please say something about Dzhgurda? I have no words to explain who this person is.

opa dzhigurda!

nämeless

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

Navanly was never imprisoned because there were not enough proofs of his guilt from the prosecutor's side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence

It's a funny thing that you are trying to assure me that I live under dictatorship. Let's bring North Korea in this conversation as the country with real modern dictatorship regime and all the characteristics of dictatorship:

One political party
Foreign Internet websites are banned
Foreign TV is banned
Military regime
Repression of dissent
...
Even tourism is banned. Civilians can't leave their country and there are a lot of problems for foreigners to visit North Korea as tourists.

I even said about tourism because sometimes I see TV-commercial for tourists to visit Czech Republic, Austria, Greece, Turkey etc. How do you think it's possible to go there living under dictatorship? LOL!

s[sk]

Rival

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

Navanly was never imprisoned because there were not enough proofs of his guilt from the prosecutor's side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence

"On 18 July 2013, Navalny was sentenced to five years in jail for embezzlement. Navalny was found guilty in misappropriating about 16 million rubles[59] (US$500,000) worth of lumber from a state-owned company."

i'm getting confused here, so he's innocent until proven guilty, there are not enough proofs and yet he's found guilty and sentenced to 5 years in prison?

It's a funny thing that you are trying to assure me that I live under dictatorship.

i'm not
i said putin didn't even have to be a "text book" dictator to keep his power
see above

nämeless

Semi-corrupt admin

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

Navanly was never imprisoned because there were not enough proofs of his guilt from the prosecutor's side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence

"On 18 July 2013, Navalny was sentenced to five years in jail for embezzlement. Navalny was found guilty in misappropriating about 16 million rubles[59] (US$500,000) worth of lumber from a state-owned company."

i'm getting confused here, so he's innocent until proven guilty, there are not enough proofs and yet he's found guilty and sentenced to 5 years in prison?

Do you know what does in law "appeal" mean?

In the evening after the sentencing the Prosecutor's Office appealed the sentence in the part which prescribed Navalny and Ofitserov to be jailed, arguing that until the higher court affirmed the sentence, the sentence is not valid. Next morning, the appeal was granted.

Last edited by nämeless (2014-07-29 15:28:06)

s[sk]

Rival

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

Do you know what does in law "appeal" mean?

yes, those who are found guilty appeal in the hope of getting the sentence revoked/reduced
prosecutors appeal if the defendant is found innocent or if the sentence is too light

in this case prosecutor appealed against the sentence he requested

i suppose you're trying to prove that that trial had nothing to do with his "political" activities and at least for me, it still looks quite the opposite

nämeless

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

It was court, not the higher court. If the prosecutor appealed, something was wrong before the hearing of the higher court.

s[sk]

Rival

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

ok, i give up, there must be some communication barrier or something

nämeless

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

There is no communication barrier, I think you don't understand that it's not that easy to imprison a person here because the sentence could be appealed in the higher level court with another judge and another prosecutor. It may take years and lots of expenses. If a higher court could appeal a person then something was wrong with evidence at the lower level court and it does mean that a prosecutor or a judge were incompetent or something else. Each lack of evidence could be considered in favour of an accused person as innocence.

joint

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Re: Ukraine demonstrations

ok, i give up, there must be some communication barrier or something

peasants must be just too zombied and just unable to think freely, yeh?:)