#1 2019-10-08 15:39:36

BFSoldier 1
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too few vehicles - too long spawn times

summary :

some maps in simple fra have too few vehicles and / or too long vehicles spawntimes. i suggest more vehicles for some already existing vehicle spawners, and reduced vehicle spawntimes


normal colour text = thoughts and reasons
red text = the problem
blue text = current simple fra settings
green text = proposed changes


full

this one has been under way from me for a long time too. i saw the vehicle deficiency for a few places in a few maps, for already existing vehicle spawners, years ago. ive played those maps a lot since, and havent changed my mind. i am certain that these changes will improve overall gameplay quality.

and my definition of gaming quality in this case is : a proper (balanced) amount of vehicles, and shorter spawntimes, meaning less waiting, and more / faster action

and im aware that maybe the main modder deliberately has limited the number of the vehicles that i mention, and intentionally wants long spawn times

overall, the quality of current mods simple fra is good, in my opinion. i would not change 90+ % of them. what i point out here is less than 1 % of total simple fra mods

the best amount of vehicles and their spawntimes is of course subjective, and there can both be too many or too few vehicles. same with spawntimes, too long, too short

too few vehicles : will result in players waiting for vehicles, being virtually inactive while so, which results in less overall intensity

too many vehicles : may possibly result in more lag both server and client side, examples; aberdeen and battle of britain. too many jeeps may turn things into an unauthentic comic-like jeep war / jeep race feeling and decrease amount of infantry on foot. too many vehicles may also make things more monotonous since abundance and deficiency is more varied than just abundance

my proposals :


battle of britain :

theres a severe lack of planes for allies when the aircraft carrier is gone and only one of the hangar spawnpoints are available. this may sound as a rare, niche situation, but it happens often and almost completely stalls allies. there are only 4 fighterplanes available in the hangar for potentially 25+ allied players. the result is that the majority of allied players are waiting for planes there instead of fighting

reasons for limiting mainly allied fighterplanes, could be that too many planes may create too much lag, or that allies shall be punished for not defending properly, by limiting their planes when they lose spawnpoints

reasons not for limiting : making almost the entire allied team get stuck in a hangar in a map like britain, that probably is supposed to be an all-out airwar, is not a good solution

my opinion : definitely increase planes per spawner. theres a slight lack of fighter planes for axis too. giving 5+ per spawner will solve it all

01.png

the problem : too few allied fighterplanes available in allied main bases

current simple fra settings : ground fighterplane spawners (red dots) : 2 planes per spawner, 15 second spawntime

suggested changes : increase the number of fighterplanes for all existing ground spawners both axis and allies (for the sake of fairness), marked with red dots to at least 5, instead of the current 2. (not including b17s, ju88as, stukas; those should not be changed)


gazala :

this map with its current settings in simple fra, lacks jeeps to a moderate / severe degree (thats of course a subjective opinion by me). as soon as player numbers rise above 35-40 in this map, jeep deficiency starts to occur. at 50+ players, it gets severe, and infantry players are stuck in mains or other bases

logically, action and intensity should be proportional with player numbers, but with current settings for jeeps for gazala, its the other way around

gazala is a large map, and it is kind of pointless and waste of time to run as infantry between bases. doubling jeep numbers will resolve the issue, and still wont result in too many jeeps
   
02.png

the problem : too few jeeps overall, resulting in infantry being stuck in their bases

current simple fra settings : 11 jeep spawners (red dots), 1 per spawner, 30 second spawntime

suggested changes : add + 1 jeep to all existing jeep spawners, so all 11 have 2 jeeps in total per spawner. lower the spawntime for all jeep spawners to 20 seconds



aberdeen

aberdeen is the only map where its possible to see 30+ tanks in action at once. but this unique chance often gets limited by lack of mainbase tanks

as i see it, there should always be available tanks in the main bases of aberdeen. but there isnt. in rounds with 40+ players, where a team only has the main base, and the opposing team is waiting outside main, there is often complete shortage of light tanks in that main base. i see no point in this, especially when it is so easy mod in +1 tanks to these spawners


04.png

the problem : lack of light tanks in both main bases, mostly when a team has only one mainbase flag

current simple fra settings :  15 light tank spawners in each main base (blue circles), 1 light tank per spawner, 75 second spawntime

suggested changes : add +1 light tank to all the existing light tank spawners in both main bases, so they have 2 tanks in total per spawner. lower spawntime to around 20 seconds

the spawners in the capturable bases should be untouched at 1 tank per spawner and unchanged spawntime

differentiating spawntimes etc. between identical vehicles in a map can be done easily, modding wise, by creating a separate new spawner in objectspawntemplates.con. with a new name and then using that new name in objectspawns.con, for specific spawners there, along with spawners that use the original name

the main simple modder may know this already

  

example :

ObjectTemplate.create ObjectSpawner lighttankspawner
ObjectTemplate.setObjectTemplate 2 sherman
ObjectTemplate.setObjectTemplate 1 panzeriv
ObjectTemplate.MinSpawnDelay 75
ObjectTemplate.MaxSpawnDelay 75
ObjectTemplate.SpawnDelayAtStart 0
ObjectTemplate.TimeToLive 45
ObjectTemplate.Distance 40
ObjectTemplate.DamageWhenLost 10

ObjectTemplate.create ObjectSpawner lighttankspawnerxxxxx
ObjectTemplate.setObjectTemplate 2 sherman
ObjectTemplate.setObjectTemplate 1 panzeriv
ObjectTemplate.MinSpawnDelay 20
ObjectTemplate.MaxSpawnDelay 20
ObjectTemplate.SpawnDelayAtStart 0
ObjectTemplate.TimeToLive 45
ObjectTemplate.Distance 40
ObjectTemplate.DamageWhenLost 10
ObjectTemplate.MaxNrOfObjectSpawned 2

--------------------


Object.create lighttankspawner 
Object.absolutePosition 79.8669/92.7208/196.021
Object.rotation 150.984/0.00306194/-0.0713348
Object.setOSId 1
Object.setTeam 1

Object.create lighttankspawnerxxxxx
Object.absolutePosition 86.2615/92.7217/200.429
Object.rotation 155.52/0.00428495/-1.52588e-005
Object.setOSId 1
Object.setTeam 1

kharkov


three jeeps for each main may sound as sufficient for kharkov, but after having played tonnes of kharkovs in simple fra, and waiting minutes for a jeep over and over in main, im am certain that it is not

03.png


the problem : too few jeeps in main bases

current simple fra settings :  3 jeeps at each main (blue dots), 1 per spawner, 30 second spawntime

suggested changes : add + 1 jeep to the existing jeep spawners, so all six have 2 jeeps in total per spawner. lower the spawntime for all jeep spawners to 20 seconds




wake

yes, its likely controversial to think of adding more jeeps to wake. but this is the “run forever – just to miss the action, map” with low intensity. more jeeps would alleviate this issue


05.png



the problem : lack of jeeps, long running / waiting times for infantry

current simple fra settings :  5 jeeps, (red dots), 1 per spawner, 30 second spawntime

suggested changes : add +1 jeeps to all existing jeep spawners, so they will yield 2 in total per spawner


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

... and why have the guadalcanal submarines been removed ?

can we get them back ?

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#2 2019-10-08 16:47:41

Vertigo
 
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Some good points there, but I'll mention that adding spawners is not allowed.
You can only "borrow" from existing spawners.  Aberdeen has plenty which are
unused, but many others do not.

To borrow (or takeover) a spawner:

ObjectTemplate.create ObjectSpawner AAGunSpawner
ObjectTemplate.setObjectTemplate 2 sherman
ObjectTemplate.setObjectTemplate 1 panzeriv
ObjectTemplate.MinSpawnDelay 20
ObjectTemplate.MaxSpawnDelay 20
ObjectTemplate.SpawnDelayAtStart 0
ObjectTemplate.TimeToLive 45
ObjectTemplate.Distance 40
ObjectTemplate.DamageWhenLost 10
ObjectTemplate.MaxNrOfObjectSpawned 2

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#3 2019-10-08 18:33:54

Arkos
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

...

More Planes at BoB for a faster TaxiBail at AxisBase?

I did not see you even once defending the island in the air or on the ground.

...

The only improvement would be in Gazala, if the spawnpoints are closer to the vehicles and perhaps some more vehicles, yes.

If you ask me, i would rather remove the planes completly at Gazala and replace it by tripple amount of tanks and jeeps.

Just imaging that epic battle on the ground with all those hidden ways to the contested area.

It would give real battles, changing from attacks to fallback, regroup and counterattacks with walls of tanks.

...

At the end it's easy. The players have just to open the map before they spawn and take care, that at every taken flag are spawning some defenders to fight the incoming Sneakers or those who broke through with jeeps. For Wake as example.

...

At Kharkov is the best move to swimm over the river from the base to the hill.

As long people do not understand that the hill is the only flag which must be kept, i fear also some jeeps more would not change the situation.

...

Last edited by Arkos (2019-10-08 18:38:19)

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#4 2019-10-08 19:24:41

Insane
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

What do you think about adding 1-2 jeeps for each side on Aberdeen?


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#5 2019-10-08 19:24:47

Cicero_01
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Arkos wrote:

...

The only improvement would be in Gazala, if the spawnpoints are closer to the vehicles and perhaps some more vehicles, yes.

If you ask me, i would rather remove the planes completly at Gazala and replace it by tripple amount of tanks and jeeps.

Just imaging that epic battle on the ground with all those hidden ways to the contested area.

It would give real battles, changing from attacks to fallback, regroup and counterattacks with walls of tanks.


...

I would love this! It seems every time I play Gazala I can't stay alive without a plane killing me before I have much chance to use a tank. No planes would be fun. For tankers anyway...

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#6 2019-10-08 19:40:12

Arkos
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

...

The commitment if engineers would also be more adequate. Blocking those surrounding ways with mines and expacks, while the others have to remove it under fire smile

...

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#7 2019-10-08 20:30:59

Goldie
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

I agree with jeeps, i don't care about spawntime.
As for the planes we have to make it equal so eveyone will have same firepower.
About aberdeen we could lower tanks spawntime as it will give both teams benefit in tight situations.


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#8 2019-10-08 20:34:15

Bad Actor
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Arkos wrote:

...

If you ask me, i would rather remove the planes completly at Gazala and replace it by tripple amount of tanks and jeeps.

Just imaging that epic battle on the ground with all those hidden ways to the contested area.

It would give real battles, changing from attacks to fallback, regroup and counterattacks with walls of tanks.
...

What he said ^^^^^, this is spot on for Gazala.

Planes take out tanks like shooting fish in a barrel on this map, you get scared to venture anywhere in a tank with a big fat target painted on your ass.

Last edited by Bad Actor (2019-10-08 20:37:52)

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#9 2019-10-08 20:41:17

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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Insane wrote:

What do you think about adding 1-2 jeeps for each side on Aberdeen?

Good idea, make rush and strike on enemy tanks viable.

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#10 2019-10-08 21:28:11

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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

That's exactly what I was thinking about. Some ppl like driving jeeps and zooking tanks.
Would it make the map more dynamic?


"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria."
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#11 2019-10-08 22:52:06

Sunshine
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

MOAR JEEPS! I am for anything that adds jeeps!


Crazy is as crazy does, and this crazy is getting shit done.

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#12 2019-10-09 00:35:00

Arkos
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

...

I just had the picture of TurboJeeps at Aberdeen in my head, smashing tanks one by one smile

Tu tuut... Boom.

...

Last edited by Arkos (2019-10-09 00:35:41)

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#13 2019-10-09 02:12:25

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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Insane wrote:

What do you think about adding 1-2 jeeps for each side on Aberdeen?

Please, no jeeps on this map. Before you know it it will turn into these types of maps where you won’t be able to move 2 meters in your tank without being zooked in the ass by someone using a Jeep. No thanks.

Last edited by Black Mamba (2019-10-09 02:12:57)

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#14 2019-10-09 04:00:20

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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Take the planes from Zala, put 'em on Aber tongue

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#15 2019-10-09 08:15:01

Insane
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Can there be Pak-40's put on a hill on Kharkov map?
And what do you guys think about it?
Just a couple of Paks turned each one towards one of the bottom flags also the HQs must be in a blind zone for those Paks obviously.

By the way... If there actually can be Paks at all, I have an idea. Not sure if it's any good, but...
Imagine one of the sides takes the hill flag.
Then it will generate a Pak-40 down under the hill somewhere in ruins so this Pak would be able to shoot the bridge on the enemies side.
So depending on who would take the flag - a Pak is turned towards an opposite bridge to shoot incoming enemies.


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#16 2019-10-09 17:34:11

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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Pak40s can’t be added to maps other than Caen server-side, they’re custom objects.

Last edited by Black Mamba (2019-10-10 01:19:54)

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#17 2019-10-09 21:08:55

AlboBallist
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Maybe alternate spawn-time for each object time to time randomly (custom min. and max.), if it's possible? This might stabilize the game.


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#18 2019-10-09 23:03:51

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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Suicide vests should also be added, for players like AlboBallist.
Go jihad Shiptar.


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#19 2019-10-10 00:32:41

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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

NiCE REPORT 000!

I agree on SO many of these fronts that u mention!

Thanks for sharing sir.

Last edited by iCQ (2019-10-10 00:33:40)


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#20 2019-10-10 00:54:24

Sunshine
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Aberdeen... give jeeps ability to spot for arty. Like when you click for horn, make it spot like sniper does with binoculars. Then they are even more useful! True scout jeeps!

Last edited by Sunshine (2019-10-10 00:54:41)


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#21 2019-10-10 04:57:01

Zatoichi
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Sunshine wrote:

MOAR JEEPS! I am for anything that adds jeeps!



Only because you have the mindset of a drunken redneck in a riding mower races/demo derby

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#22 2019-10-10 12:23:18

Sunshine
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Zatoichi wrote:
Sunshine wrote:

MOAR JEEPS! I am for anything that adds jeeps!



Only because you have the mindset of a drunken redneck in a riding mower races/demo derby

Thank you smile


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#23 2019-10-10 17:03:27

Insane
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Sunshine wrote:

Aberdeen... give jeeps ability to spot for arty. Like when you click for horn, make it spot like sniper does with binoculars. Then they are even more useful! True scout jeeps!

Reminds of those light recon helicopters in DC mod.

Last edited by Insane (2019-10-10 17:04:24)


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#24 Yesterday 11:17:06

tuia
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Some good proposed changes to the maps. I will add some of them this weekend and over the next days.

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#25 Yesterday 12:14:50

Insane
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

I also remembered something.
There are AA guns, one in allied base on Kharkow map another in axis base on Kursk map. So, their view is closed with some trees.
Axis flack behind a Tiger's spawn on Kursk is not so closed by the tree, but for allies on Kharkow map it would be easier to support friendly planes fighting over the closest flag.
On the other hand axis flacks are on a higher distance from their bridge flag on Kharkow map.


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#26 Yesterday 17:32:40

Arkos
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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

...

I allways asked myself which stupid guy placed those trees there smile

...

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#27 Yesterday 22:52:46

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Re: too few vehicles - too long spawn times

Yasssss! The flak gods approve!


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