#31 2018-08-20 23:14:44

Trench
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Re: Anyone know about UPS battery backups?

bud wrote:

Simply put its the amount of electronics built in the device, it takes more power the more you add. For instance your ups has some logic circuit that needs power to run (even if small)

Principal of PSU, converting dc to ac, principal of PSU, converting ac to dc

Thanks Bud.  So if I'm taking your meaning correctly, we're saying "designed for low voltage" is a UPS that is designed to "never invert back up to AC power."  AC is transformed and stepped down to DC to charge the battery, but the device connected to the UPS is always running on DC, regardless of whether we're on battery or not.

If so, that's exactly what the Verizon FiOS ONT's UPS is, and I just never thought or realized to acknowledge the efficiency difference that makes.  Just always thought of it as "purpose-built" for not being able to power anything but a 30v DC device; but not "and they would intentionally choose this design because its more efficient to have it this way, too."

Or am I missing the point still, and you are talking about a design that still applies even when there are AC outlets on the UPS?

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#32 2018-08-21 00:44:47

Russ
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Re: Anyone know about UPS battery backups?

(BB)DinkW wrote:

You can use a clamp meter if you can borrow one from somewhere, a good electrician will usually have one, to find the current being drawn and then do the maths to work the wattage.

You need an AC line splitter to use a power clamp, since total current through neutral and hot is zero. At that point it's much easier just to get a plug-in watt meter (such as Kill-A-Watt).

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#33 2018-08-21 00:46:33

Russ
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Re: Anyone know about UPS battery backups?

Trench wrote:
Sunshine wrote:

I have one of those ONT things in the garage but I don't know if it was on or not.

Originally for FiOS, Verizon would only install a battery backup on your ONT if you had purchased FiOS-based phone service with them.  Presumably because of their concern for local regulation regarding 9-1-1 service, and being able to make an emergency call even when the power was out.  (As compared to legacy copper service, which was powered over the phone lines themselves.)

FiOS no longer provides a battery backup.  The technicians tell you "it's not needed any more", but I think all it really means is Verizon's lawyers finally figured out they were not compelled to provide one.  While true that "it doesn't need one", without one your phone service IS going to go out when the ONT loses power.

I still have the Verizon UPS on my residential service, and just replace the batteries on it myself when needed.  They installed a business line of service here too without a UPS, and so I had to put my own UPS on that second ONT.  If you have a UPS on your ONT, it will be inside the garage near where ever the ONT is plugged into AC power.  If you don't have one there, maybe that's another place to consider adding one.

-Trench

If you don't have phone, don't bother with the ONT's built-in UPS. It only powers Internet and TV for a few minutes and then reserves the bulk of the capacity for phone. I just plug my ONT into an external UPS.

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#34 2018-08-22 02:52:13

bud
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Re: Anyone know about UPS battery backups?

Trench wrote:
bud wrote:

Simply put its the amount of electronics built in the device, it takes more power the more you add. For instance your ups has some logic circuit that needs power to run (even if small)

Principal of PSU, converting dc to ac, principal of PSU, converting ac to dc

Thanks Bud.  So if I'm taking your meaning correctly, we're saying "designed for low voltage" is a UPS that is designed to "never invert back up to AC power."  AC is transformed and stepped down to DC to charge the battery, but the device connected to the UPS is always running on DC, regardless of whether we're on battery or not.

If so, that's exactly what the Verizon FiOS ONT's UPS is, and I just never thought or realized to acknowledge the efficiency difference that makes.  Just always thought of it as "purpose-built" for not being able to power anything but a 30v DC device; but not "and they would intentionally choose this design because its more efficient to have it this way, too."

Or am I missing the point still, and you are talking about a design that still applies even when there are AC outlets on the UPS?

Yes and no smile Your Verizon UPS seems to be built for one purpose, witch is the best solution of course,  but if its universal then it still has to do that conversion to ac. An UPS for small wattage can pinpoint the sweetspot of the conversion for the amount of energy needed. Also a big one might need say 20 watt just to drive its own circuits, where a small one might use say 5 watt.

Modern switched psu´s use DC internally, so the first thing it does is to convert the incoming AC to DC. (then back to ac again but at a much higher frequency like 150-300 kHz (less losses in trafo))

In reality there is not much electronic that needs more than a few volt to operate, a cpu is down to something like 1.2 volt now, memory use like 1.35V volt and so on, the fans use 12 volt of course but thats much from convenience.

A tv might use the 60Hz from the powersupply for syncing purposes.

Last edited by bud (2018-08-22 02:57:37)


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#35 2018-08-23 16:07:24

Arkos
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Re: Anyone know about UPS battery backups?

...

You ment 60 Khz, i guess. Btw., ... you think it is for syncing sumdin?

...

Last edited by Arkos (2018-08-23 16:07:57)

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#36 2018-08-24 14:33:51

bud
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Re: Anyone know about UPS battery backups?

Tv analog system, 60 hz ntsc (usa). Some apparatus use/used net frequency for sync purposes.

------------------------------------

Old 60Hz trafos (linear power supply) is bigger physically, you can feel the difference in weight and size if you have a older one at home for a mobilphone or something the like.

A linear power supply normally operates around 60% efficiency for 24V outputs, whereas a switch-mode power supply operates at 80% or more.

https://www.circuitspecialists.com/blog … vs-linear/

Switched-mode power supply

The inverter stage converts DC, whether directly from the input or from the rectifier stage described above, to AC by running it through a power oscillator, whose output transformer is very small with few windings at a frequency of tens or hundreds of kilohertz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched- … wer_supply

Last edited by bud (2018-08-24 14:57:45)


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#37 2018-08-24 16:21:46

Sunshine
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Re: Anyone know about UPS battery backups?

The BGE90 works like a charm smile

After I had it charged up and plugged in and my modem/router plugged into it, I decided to test it. Sure enough, I unplugged it and my modem/router never hiccupped and internet stayed on and TV didn't cut out or pause or whatever (CL Prism is IPTV).


Crazy is as crazy does, and this crazy is getting shit done.

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#38 2018-08-28 19:48:59

iCQ
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Re: Anyone know about UPS battery backups?

Sunshine wrote:

The BGE90 works like a charm smile

After I had it charged up and plugged in and my modem/router plugged into it, I decided to test it. Sure enough, I unplugged it and my modem/router never hiccupped and internet stayed on and TV didn't cut out or pause or whatever (CL Prism is IPTV).

Great work! smile

maxresdefault.jpg

Last edited by iCQ (2018-08-28 19:52:04)


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